Oceans4Me? A question about altitude...or anyone who's done this trip

Hi Oceans,

Further to the wonderful info you have already provided about this trip, could I ask you (or indeed any other prior travellers on this trip) some questions about altitude and the amount of physical activity, please?

I am a sea-level dweller and I am aware that I do not do well at altitude. I do get better at it, but I know that the first couple of days at altitude are not good for me, particularly if there is anything physical involved. The itinerary will have me travelling from: San Francisco (0'); Denver (5200'); Moab (4300'); Bryce Canyon ( 8500'), Zion (4200') and Grand Canyon (8250'). I understand about acclimatisation, and I will have about 5 days in all at Moab, but I am concerned about the instant change in elevation from Moab to Bryce. That is quite a leap. Many guides suggest no more altitude variation than 3000' in one day. I would really love to participate in the dawn & sunset patrols, but at altitude? Can you tell me what level of activity is involved? Are there any hills to climb? (It doesn't matter if they are only little if you can't breath!) Can you still participate fully in the experience by ... keeping to the flat?

I understand altitude affects people differently. I understand we all have to be responsible (untimately) for our own well-being. I just know how altitude can effect me. I will be talking a walking pole with me and I will also be discussing possible medication with my doctor, but I would really like your take on the experience.

Thanks very much in anticipation,

Cheers,

Jan

Comments

  • Hi Jan,

    I took Red Rocks and Painted Canyons a number of years ago, and while it was less physically active than National Parks of the Southwest is, we visited almost all of the same locations. As I recall, no one had any particular trouble with the altitude in terms of breathing or acclimatization. I definitely agree that you should talk to your doctor, and I'm sure Oceans will have better advice, as they've taken this trip before.

    I hope you enjoy your trip! :)

    -Tim
  • Interesting to hear that you've been to some of these places before, Tim.

    However, I'd still like an answer from someone who's actually done this trip, because as you would know, Tim, it's the order of visiting the altitudes, and the variance between any two consecutive sites that are the issues here. That, and the degree of physical effort involved in the Dawn Patrols on this tour.

    I am hoping someone can comment on these questions, as relevant to this tour. You know, things like ... you can avoid some hills..... or, yes, you could enjoy the patrols by keeping to the flat and just strolling ... or even .... watch the others from the porch!

    Altitude can and does affect people quite differently. Age, size, general good health may make no difference as to whether thinner air effects them or not. One visit might effect them, another not. And if you had, say 10 minutes to go over there and take a picture then come back to the bus, at altitude, you might say to yourself, .... hmm, that's a little steep. It will take me 15 minutes. And rather than delay the group, you might give your camera to a friend to take some shots for you.

    When you went on the kids' trip, way back when, no one might have ever told you that they felt a little "slow". The other kids might have been quieter on occasion. More people dozing on the bus. And you might not have remembered any of that, since you do say it was ..."a number of years ago."

    Oh, and altitude can affect your memory. Usually temporally. And your sight. That's called transient myopia. Just a useless fact I thought I'd throw in!
  • edited February 2012
    Hi Jan,

    Good points! And interesting stuff! Anyway, to get you the best possible answer for this (as there don't seem to be too many other responses here) I sent your question on to our Guest Relations department, and will repost here when I have an answer. Hope this helps!

    -Tim

    Correction: They'll be emailing you directly.
  • Tauck Tim wrote:
    to get you the best possible answer for this (as there don't seem to be too many other responses here) I sent your question on to our Guest Relations department,

    LOL, Tim! At least you have acknowledged what we all know. That this new, improved forum is still a pale shadow of what was a vibrant and above all, useful Tauck community resource. Let's hope we Tauckies can rebuild it!
  • So sorry--have not revisited the Spirit forum for a whilte, and you may already have been on your trip! No, the 'dawn patrols' do not necessarily involve a lot of hiking or walking--some are just meeting at the rplace to observe the sunrise (like at Bryce--you just walk over to the canyon rim from your room, a short walk, if you want to see the sun rise over Bryce Canyon. For sunrise at Arches the first day, everyone goes on the bus--and there is some walking around there--some little hills, yes--but you take it at your own pace. These dawn patrols and sunset scout things are just a fun way of saying 'meet me for sunrise or sunset at this spot" kind of thing. Some are scheduled, some are on your own as the trip goes on. At Red Cliffs Lodge, you can see sunrises and sunsets from your room--what a glorious view! So, don't worry about the dawn patrols. You can take it easy and just enjoy! This trip was one of the best trips I've ever had with Tauck--enjoy!
  • That's just the sort of information I was looking for, Oceans! I have spent a Lot of Time since January trying to garner the practical information you have just provided. Thank You! I wonder if I could ask another question, please? I'm going in mid September, so I'm wondering how cold those early morning walks might be. I am used to layering and I am coming in via San Francisco ;) so I know all about dressing for the weather in one of my most favourite cities, but I'm wondering if I need to really rug up for the desert mornings? I didn't want to pack warm trousers and jacket for just a few hours, really, and I certainly won't need them when I get to Lost Wages! Any tips would be most helpful.

    Thanks so much for checking in back here, Oceans.

    Cheers,

    Jan
  • Jan,
    I won't be much help to you about September weather; we went in late June/early July. You can layer, I'm sure, and that will be fine; the mornings for the dawn patrols will be quite chilly by then, but the days will warm up. If you are from San Fran, you will know how to do that. On most days, you'll get back to the hotel at some point, to be able to leave the layers behind. Don't worry about these details--just have fun. I wore a light fleece jacket in the morning myself even in early July.

    I am happy to answer questions. It is a wonderful trip, and the sights are so amazing! I still look at my photos in wonder! I'll check back here as I can - but will be away part of July on our next Tauck trip--Alaska!!

    Debbi
  • Hi Debbi,

    You've been a great help! I was wondering how I'd manage the layering stuff if the morning were really nippy ... so glad there will be a chance to un-layer in a genteel fashion! I'll be flying in from Australia, via San Francisco, so that's why I'd rather not have to pack a heavy jacket just to wear for a couple of mornings over a 6 week trip.

    I did the small ship trip to Alaska with Tauck a few years ago. It was great, but left me hungry for more! Tauck have changed their shipping line for the Grand Alaska trip since then and as an Australian, I am still not inclined to favour the current shipping line with my custom.

    Have a great time in Alaska ... and come back to the Forum and tell us all about it!

    Cheers,

    Jan


  • jdurkin wrote:
    Hi Oceans,

    Further to the wonderful info you have already provided about this trip, could I ask you (or indeed any other prior travellers on this trip) some questions about altitude and the amount of physical activity, please?

    I am a sea-level dweller and I am aware that I do not do well at altitude. I do get better at it, but I know that the first couple of days at altitude are not good for me, particularly if there is anything physical involved. The itinerary will have me travelling from: San Francisco (0'); Denver (5200'); Moab (4300'); Bryce Canyon ( 8500'), Zion (4200') and Grand Canyon (8250'). I understand about acclimatisation, and I will have about 5 days in all at Moab, but I am concerned about the instant change in elevation from Moab to Bryce. That is quite a leap. Many guides suggest no more altitude variation than 3000' in one day. I would really love to participate in the dawn & sunset patrols, but at altitude? Can you tell me what level of activity is involved? Are there any hills to climb? (It doesn't matter if they are only little if you can't breath!) Can you still participate fully in the experience by ... keeping to the flat?

    I understand altitude affects people differently. I understand we all have to be responsible (untimately) for our own well-being. I just know how altitude can effect me. I will be talking a walking pole with me and I will also be discussing possible medication with my doctor, but I would really like your take on the experience.

    Thanks very much in anticipation,

    Cheers,

    Jan
  • I went on a trip to California with Tauck in 2009 which went into Yosemite park. On the free day I joined a Natl Park Service trip to Glacier Point which I think is over 7000 feet. I did feel some tightening in my chest and was dizzy on the bus getting to the lunch stop. We kept travelling after lunch and it passed.
    I'm going on the Yellowstone trip this summer and am from the Northeast. I'm concerned about the altitude too. I was wondering about flying into Salt Lake. I've never travelled by air to a city of high altitude before, I've always gone by car. My second question has to do with the giving back activity in Grand Teton. Do most people do okay with that? I'd like to participate in all activities but I'm wondering about handling the altitude. No one I know who has ever been to Yellowstone talks about altitude--only the beauty and the bears!
  • As a fellow sufferer who normally lives at sea level, I'm happy to comment. I find that the first onset of the effects of altitude always sneak up on me. At the first hike in altitude I notice that I just ... can't ... do ... anything and don't know why. I can't walk up a tiny slope without getting puffed and feeling ... weird? Then after a while, it dawns on me, usually when there's a natural descent in the altitude or the road ahead, I start paying attention to the glorious stuff out there and I think to myself, oh, that was all about the altitude. So then I start to drink more water, which helps immensely and before I know it, even though we might actually be climbing in altitude, my system starts to deal with it. It's that first exposure combined with any effort required on my part. And it can come as a surprise because you don't know what's happening. It does get better! If you are travelling with a companion, you are probably attuned to each other and inclined to look out for each other. (I know, no guarantees in life!) If you are on your own, you're the only one aware of your "condition" and others might just think you're ... weird. (Never mind. It might happen to them one day.) Once I'm aware, I can decide to take that hike (using the word loosely) to the scenic photo shot spot or give my camera to someone not bothered by the altitude. One of the things I now prepare for is to take a stronger pair of reading glasses for the intermittent short-sightedness that attacks me at higher altitudes. That goes away, too, but you have to remember to ween yourself off the stronger glasses when you return to your "normal" altitude.

    As for Yellowstone.... My trip was a few years ago and I did the north to south route. The first hit of altitude got to me at the thermal area stop on the way to Old Faithful. After that, I kind of got used to walking slowing! My tip is to look at the beauty and the bears and walk slowly! ;) Be kind to yourself. Don't panic! Drink lots of water ... it really helps cart the oxygen around your blood stream ... and soothes startled brains ;)). This is not medical advice! To be consumed anecdotally only! ;))

    I understand your point about driving in rather than flying in. If it's any help, I had flown through Salt Lake City on connecting flights, before my Yellowstone trip. Theoretically, I should have noticed the altitude even during the couple of hours at the airport, but I didn't. Maybe my memory is fading !! , but perhaps if you arrive a little early for your tour and take the time to pamper yourself. As for volunteering in the Tetons, I wouldn't worry about that too much. It's great fun and if you think about it laterally, Tauck is not going to send you to the coal mines, so to speak. Nor is the National Parks Service. It's a very litigious society and no one is going to risk anything!

    Do enjoy your trip. It is absolutely Stunning country. Have a wonderful time!

    Cheers,

    Jan
  • I have done this area years ago, but I did do a tour of Colorado (which is basically Spirit of the Desert now) a few years ago. The advice from the local people was to combat problems with the altitude by walking slowly the first day or two and to drink plenty of water! If you are feeling bad and that doesn't help, try a bottle of Gatorade. These tricks have worked for me on later tours to places of altitude. Considering that I live only a few miles from the Atlantic Ocean, so I am at sea level, I have not had any problems once I started following this advice.
  • Slow walking and no hills! :) Gatorade or similar would never have occurred to me. Thanks for the tip, Kathy. That's a caffeine type thing, isn't it? Might be something in that because I never drink coffee in North America. After over a month or so away, I am just gasping for a decent cup when I get home to a city that is very proud to have sent a Seattle-based beverage seller packing. They just couldn't compete. Someone didn't do their market research or perhaps no one believed them!

    Sports drinks! That's a great tip. I'll try it this trip!

    Cheers,

    Jan
  • We took the Empire of the Incas tour in April 2013. That was altitude! Perhaps another prescription for the altitude medicine is called for here? (We are taking this tour in late August 2013.) We will not be offered coca tea in Arizona!

  • We just returned last week from the Grand Canadian Rockies tour. Coming from Maryland, with an 516' altitude, our TD suggested going easy on alcohol at the higher elevations in the Rockies . . . Lake Louise being at 5,449'. I kept it at one drink before dinner, and one during. That was really a struggle (HaHa)!
  • Dear me, rabo, I feel your pain! ;)))))

    I was so concerned about my probable reaction to the altitude in the National Parks in Utah & Arizona that my doctor and I nutted out a plan between us. She gave me the prescription and directions for use for the altitude medication and I gathered the anecdotal "directions" from a friend who commutes between Australia and Breckonridge, CO. (9600' ...that's the town ... who knows what the ski runs are!!!) Her family never have any problems but she does. She warned me that any kind of fizzy drink tastes very peculiar if you are taking the medication, so I was forewarned. The idea is that you start the medication before you get to your highest altitude, then stop. As the tour unfolded, we were actually increasing the altitude, almost day by day, so I had to keep the tablets going till I arrived in Vegas. I can tell you that by then I was gasping for a G & T! It's no hardship for me to avoid flavoured fizzy drinks, colas, etc., but I was surprised how revolting a G & T tasted at the welcome reception! Even fizzy water tasted odd. Thank heavens it didn't affect wine, is all I can say!

    And yes, the medication worked a treat. I was able to stagger out to Bright Angel Point to appreciate the extraordinary view without a care giver! The shame was, it didn't make me any fitter! But is was a heck of a lot better than sheltering in the lee of the bus like some of the other travellers in my group had to do. It's an awful feeling and all I could do for them was to offer soothing noises and a hand if they need it.

    At least I have plenty of pills left over. I can now seriously consider Machu Picchu!

    Cheers,

    Jan
  • Hi Jan I went on the Bridges tour that went to Bryce Canyon. On that trip I you want you can stay at the top and look in and get plenty of pics. I took the walk upon arrival down into the canyon and was really bothered by the altitude. It was way too much. I laid down for about and hour before going down for supper. Other than that had no issue. At Grand Canyon we pretty much walked around the top.

    I plan on taking this trip in a few years. I am really interested in seeing the North Rim. It is less visited, but supposed to be the better view. So wish I could take the trip with you and meet you in person.
  • elenab wrote:
    I went on a trip to California with Tauck in 2009 which went into Yosemite park. On the free day I joined a Natl Park Service trip to Glacier Point which I think is over 7000 feet. I did feel some tightening in my chest and was dizzy on the bus getting to the lunch stop. We kept travelling after lunch and it passed.
    I'm going on the Yellowstone trip this summer and am from the Northeast. I'm concerned about the altitude too. I was wondering about flying into Salt Lake. I've never travelled by air to a city of high altitude before, I've always gone by car. My second question has to do with the giving back activity in Grand Teton. Do most people do okay with that? I'd like to participate in all activities but I'm wondering about handling the altitude. No one I know who has ever been to Yellowstone talks about altitude--only the beauty and the bears!

    I did the give back on the Grand Teton/Yellowstone tour. We got up early and worked on cleaning and old ranger station. We rewarding to know we were helping the park and not too strenuous. It is my understanding there are several things they have to do. I still enjoy wearing my t-shirt occasionally.
  • It is indeed a stunning trip, Crackers. I have always been fascinated by the desert landscapes ... maybe too many early TV westerns at an impressionable age? Anyway, I really wanted to see them. I wanted to see Monument Valley, but this National Parks tour had so many other "hits" but not Monument Vally. I might have to do Canyonlands some time. In fact, there was a couple on my trip last September who had done Canyonlands immediately prior to National Parks. There was a little over lap, but I'm guessing that at least by the time they returned to Bryce & Zion they had built up a little altitude resistance.

    The landscapes are truly awesome ... in one particular meaning of that word! Now if the boffins could invent an instantly-fit-for-the-duration pill that would be wonderful! And you're right about the North rim. Vast. Stunning. When you look at Ken Burns' doco, particularly the stories of the early photographers ... well. I'm just glad they have railings on the paths now! Yikes!

    Cheers,

    Jan
  • yes I noticed after I commented you went last Sept. I should know by now to look at the date of the 1st post to see when it started.
  • Thanks for this thread. It has been very informative. My husband and I just signed up for this tour departing in May 2014. We live at sea level, and I know I can have issues with altitude - generally minor at about 4000 ft, and easily addressed with one night of sleep. If we are going to be at 8000 ft, though, hiking could pose a problem.

    From those who have been on this trip, I would love to hear how much walking around is required at those higher altitudes, and whether there is much uphill. (I find I can cover a lot of territory if I am walking slowly on level ground, and downhill has never proven to be a problem at any altitude!)

    Thanks for any specifics!
  • Hi boomerangix,

    I started this thread because like you, I live at sea level and I know I don't do well at anything over 1500 feet. I really wanted to do this trip but wasn't sure I could survive the altitude. Not everyone is affected and those who aren't don't seem to have any empathy for those of us who do.

    Caveat: everyone is different but since you asked …

    I did this trip in September of 2012. It was fabulous. (But I still need to visit Monument Valley!) My personal research showed that the daily upward change in altitude was significant and might well affect me. The highest altitude was at the Grand Canyon, North Rim, towards the end of the trip. If it had been at the beginning, the chain of events would be different … altitude wise. So with medical advice, I took altitude pills, from the day before I arrived at Moab till we reached the highest point. I also arrived early in Moab with a mind to acclimatise.

    The pills did not make me any fitter. Sigh. But, they did make it possible for me to walk up inclines … although modest, I know I couldn't have done it otherwise. I noticed it also lessened the amount of leg & ankle swelling I have experienced at altitude previously. I was also aware that the transient myopia that usually bothers me at altitude didn't happen this time.

    As for uphill walks … there were some. I avoided the worst because the darn pills didn't make me any fitter. But I did get out to Angel Point at the North Rim and marvelled with the best of them. There were lots of other people who had trouble with inclines, and heights, and varying levels of fitness, so I felt quite normal! Make sure you always have water with you. There will always be water on the bus. I took my own walking pole with me and I was very glad I did. However, on my trip, the lovely driver had a supply on board.

    Do go. It is a fabulous and stunning part of the world.

    Cheers,

    Jan

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