He encouraged me to have my photo taken with him and then asked for money. No problem, if he can be bothered to stand there in the hope of making a few bucks, that’s Ok
“kfnknfzk
September 22
This is why I am very conflicted about traveling to Africa. Sure, I would love to see the animals in their own habitat, but I am not sure I understand the purpose of this picture which seems to be taken at a "hotel" with no threat to humans. Please, I mean no disrespect. I am just trying to understand the point of this post.“
Tauck puts together very safe trips, but Africa is not Hawaii. (;-)
Rogue elephant ‘in’ the camp at Eagle Island in Botswana. A man with a gun fired warning shots to scare it away. At one point the elephant had a Canadian family ‘pinned’ against a wall. The family had been a bit ‘silly’ to get into that predicament. They had tried to walk around the elephant to get to their ‘tent’. After this event we were escorted to and from our tents both day and night ... previously just at night.
I’m not sure what Sealord is on this week, but funnily enough, at the same Eagle Island camp, there was an elephant right by our room when we were walking back to it with one of the security guys. He quickly got us into a safe area and persuaded the elephant to move along, it took some time, it was quite an un-nerving experience. We have been in several similar situations with elephants over the years on Safari, not to forget that it is a dangerous hobby.
Not sure I want to continue this discussion other than to point out that my only point was exactly what British said, “... safari, not to forget that it is a dangerous hobby.” You seldom see people with guns in the hotels and camps on safari, but you can trust that they are there and readily available. There are not just animals but people in nearby areas that are a threat. That is why the Mount Kenya Safari Club became an armed camp for the president’s visit. We were nearly ‘pulled out’ of Africa by Tauck on our first K&T when there were terrorist attacks in Arusha. One does not leave the hotel in Nairobi without an ‘escort’. “at a hotel with no threat to humans”. I’m not trying to humiliate anyone ... that is not me ... just trying to provide some realistic perspective. Africa is my favorite place on the planet, but it deserves a great deal of caution and respect.
These pictures were taken in Zambia on our B,Z, and SA safari, posted only to show us exercising a “great deal of caution”(;-). This type of activity is available in several places including Zimbabwe where others on this site have walked with the lions. Some of these operators were found to be of questionable repute and have been shut down.
Sealord, perhaps you can explain the context of the lion photos. That is in Southern Africa. The ‘Walking with Lions’ place was featured on 60 minutes around the time Sealord visited. The lions were bred in captivity and used with tourists until they became too big. They were not released into the Wild as tourists were told but taken to one of the places where you can pay to shoot them. It was on the Tauck itinerary until then. They removed it and went to a rhino sanctioned which is where we went to on the Botswana tour.
We met Sealord briefly at the Arusha hotel in 2014 Prior to the start of our Tanzania Zanzibar tour and his K and T tour. There was a terror bomb that exploded in the town several miles away. When our tour began our Tour Director asked that we always carry all our valuables with us on each Safari, she did not explain why, but we carried our passports and medicines with us. We were not told about the bombing, but I knew about it because I had already read about it on the BBC news. We were already a smaller group than usual because of the Ebola scare thousands of miles away that made many people cancel that year.
To put things into context, you are more likes to get shot or catch Covid in the US than you are in Africa.
Thank you cathyandsteve. I feel pretty certain that our lions were not taken out to the barn and shot like “Old Yeller”. In the past ... in my youth ... I was a hunter, and like William Holden, one day I just said I don’t want to do this anymore. That being said, in Zambia game hunting is legal, and when the lions are released into the wild they will go where the go, and there fate may be with the hunter. Zambia charges large fees to hunt animals, and those fees are supposed to be used for conservation efforts. Interestingly, lion trophies may not be imported to the US but they may be imported to the UK.
If the lions were very young when they were brought to the sanctuary, then they would not have had time to learn how to hunt. They have to learn this skill from their mothers. If they are truly let out into the reserve, they would likely starve because of limited hunting skills or come into contact with the lions in the reserve and into their territory. They would also be a threat to any humans they come across.
The hunting money is supposed to be plowed back into animal conservation, so that is a positive. The lions bred for both the Makuna 5 and then hunting, at least its not depleting the wild population.
I’m sorry, I’ve brought this Subject up too often on this forum. I think Tauck did the right thing taking the Walking with Lions off their itinerary, as a result of the negative publicity on 60 minutes. If people want to go, they can do so independently before the Tauck tour begins. I just want people to be aware of the realities. No lions have been successfully released in this program.
I did find a scientific paper on this subject. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259430151_Walking_with_lions_Why_there_is_no_role_for_captive-origin_lions_Panthera_leo_in_species_restoration
We watch hundreds of wildlife programs and like to think we have gained a lot of knowledge about lion behavior from them, and we read about it too,including the importance of young lions learning how to hunt, adaptations in different lion habitats, and the dangers of random single lions finding themselves strolling into the territory of another Pride.
I’m not making any kind of judgements, I’m just wanting the facts to be known so that the lion encounters are not over romanticized.
We chose not to seek out taking the Walking with Lions tour when we took the Botswana tour. By then, it was the Rhino sanctuary that was part of the tour. I was actually relieved because I would have been really nervous with the lions. I guess I know too much.
We did have the good fortune of being able to pet famous Sylvester the cheetah, now deceased, at a sanctuary on the Tauck South Africa Elegant Adventure. He was orphaned at a very young age and hand reared by one of the keepers at the sanctuary and they were devoted to each other, it must have been very sad when he died as I think it was very sudden. He of course would never have been able to be released.
Does anyone understand (a good guess counts extra points) why the lodging in Arusha has changed from the Arusha Serena hotel and grounds to the Gran Malia Arusha? We thought that the Serena was a fantastic introduction to Africa for those never having been there and the lodging was very unique. Maybe closer to the airport? I know it is new and modern but that doesn't make it more attractive for first time Safari folks. Maybe elephants come up to the pool like at the Four Seasons?
I liked the Serena hotel but would have liked a a pool to swim in. Tauck just seems to be staying in fancier hotels as the years go by and hence the big increases in prices of the tours. I hated the Four Seasons on my most recent K and T tour. The original hotels in my first K and T tour about twelve years ago were much more authentic and unique
Virginia_Travelers - I doubt you'll see any game at the Gran Melia. It is located much more in town. There is a golf course just across the street from the hotel. The Serena was definitely unique and walking around Lake Deluti was a good way to brush off the jet lag of getting there.
I think Tauck constantly assesses hotels. I bet they get lots of negative comments about any hotels that don't have enough of the modern amenities that we've grown accustomed to having - abundant outlets for charging and plugging in all of our electronics. When reasonable options exist that address negative comments that Tauck receives, assuming the comments were numerous enough, then they switch hotels.
British - I can buy into your assessment of unique, but not so much authentic. I think it's likely that when you say authentic you might mean rustic. Personally, just because I'm in Africa to see the animals in a reasonably natural setting doesn't mean I need to sleep in a sleeping bag under the stars and eat around a campfire to have an enjoyable and 'authentic' experience. I enjoyed the stay at the Four Seasons. The rooms looked right out onto the Serengeti and you could see, if you were lucky, animals not far from your room. That said I also enjoyed the nights at the Serena in Arusha and the luxury tented rooms in the Masai Mara.
I loved staying at The Arusha Serena with its unique rooms spread out on its lovely grounds. It was a wonderful introduction to Africa. The staff were fantastic- friendly and helpful. But it would be nice to laze around a beautiful pool while dealing with jet lag. I noticed that the tour no longer goes to the Tanzania Cultural Center but the Gran Melia is nearby (<15 min by car). I thoroughly enjoyed roaming around looking at the crafts and talking with some of the artisans.
We never stayed in rustic camps, just more luxury tented camps. Stayed in one camp in Tanzania where elephants were roaming around just like at Eagle Island camp in Botswana. I remember the cultural center when it was a much smaller affair and the unpaved roads all around Arusha before the Chinese built the new ones that are better than the roads in PA where we live. Our second time in Arusha they had literally just been completed.
Sam, our next Africa tour is the newest one African Odessy next year. Pandemic permitting. Next plan to be In Arusha with all our family in 2024 to celebrating our fiftieth anniversary.
We liked the Serena lodge in Arusha. But our next will be our third trip, so a little change will probably be welcome. Getting in a day early to try to deal with the severe jet-lag, it probably does not matter much where we are staying. On our first trip Eloise ripped a lamp off the wall thinking it was the handle to the bathroom. This year’s trip for which I still have not canceled the air, grew by seven hours. I had bought ‘coach comfort’ seats which are not refundable, but the airfare we should get back. I just want to be back in Africa. I can’t imagine being “Out of Africa” with no intention of returning.
Smiling Sam and all - we also really enjoyed the Four Seasons. It was a very good respite from being on the road. Getting escorted back to our room at night by the Massai was certainly an interesting experience. Our room happened to be the farthest one from the main lobby. Seeing the animals from the room and the evening's entertainment while enjoying dinner was amazing. For an opposite experience we also thoroughly enjoyed our tent stay at the Fairmont Mara Safari Club. We could just look down the hill at the hundred hippos and hear them throughout the evening and yet in the morning they were all gone. I remember we had severe winds the first night that surely made it a wild evening trying to stay warm and trying to keep the flaps down safely. I'm sure Sealord remembers that !
All these experiences just remind us that we went on a trip of a lifetime and one we will never forget no matter the lodging at night !!
We were at the Four Seasons with a Bridges tour about 2 years ago. I was sitting on the balcony looking at my I-Pad and I looked up and there was a big baboon sitting on the railing of the balcony about 10 feet away from me. He was just staring at me. Didn't know if I should run or just sit there but, luckily, didn't have to make the choice. He moved - thank God!
As you may remember, you had to sign a waiver just to stay at the Four Seasons ... no fence. The animals could come and go as they pleased. Perhaps the best bathroom I’ve ever seen. I loved the Four Seasons! Maybe next time we will get a room with a view of the waterhole.
After having a few drinks the trick was walking the bending and moving walkway and avoiding the tse tse flies while being escorted by the Warriors back to the room ! Good thing we had our flashlights. There was no telling what was really beneath the walkway !
My strategy was looking straight ahead - never looking down...and continuously talking to ‘create noise’ to alert all animals that I was coming and they should scoot away!
Nancy -- reminds me of the scene in The Parent Trap where Hayley Mills (yes -- THAT version of The Parent Trap!) walked through the woods knocking two sticks together to scare off any bears.
When we did K&T several years ago, there was a small conference (Four Seasons employees) going on. One night one of the attendees couldn't get back to her room for a few hours because a big bull elephant was blocking her way. It took awhile before the staff was able to convince the elephant to "move along, nothing to see here."
When Joycesw went, the previous occupants of their assigned room forgot to close the deck door the previous day when they checked out. It didn't take long for the baboons to enter the room and really trash it. The staff wasn't able to clean and repair it before Joyce and her husband checked in, so they were given a really nice, upgraded room.
That’s a roll eyes situation. I remember numerous warnings about not leaving the doors open. That being said, I’ve recently had a hawk in the living room, and there was a bear in a tree two bocks away three days ago. We are not in a “country” environment ... and we are not in Africa.
Comments
![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030777/uploads/editor/dc/0d56z40t0z98.jpeg "
He encouraged me to have my photo taken with him and then asked for money. No problem, if he can be bothered to stand there in the hope of making a few bucks, that’s Ok
“kfnknfzk
September 22
This is why I am very conflicted about traveling to Africa. Sure, I would love to see the animals in their own habitat, but I am not sure I understand the purpose of this picture which seems to be taken at a "hotel" with no threat to humans. Please, I mean no disrespect. I am just trying to understand the point of this post.“
Tauck puts together very safe trips, but Africa is not Hawaii. (;-)
Rogue elephant ‘in’ the camp at Eagle Island in Botswana. A man with a gun fired warning shots to scare it away. At one point the elephant had a Canadian family ‘pinned’ against a wall. The family had been a bit ‘silly’ to get into that predicament. They had tried to walk around the elephant to get to their ‘tent’. After this event we were escorted to and from our tents both day and night ... previously just at night.
I’m not sure what Sealord is on this week, but funnily enough, at the same Eagle Island camp, there was an elephant right by our room when we were walking back to it with one of the security guys. He quickly got us into a safe area and persuaded the elephant to move along, it took some time, it was quite an un-nerving experience. We have been in several similar situations with elephants over the years on Safari, not to forget that it is a dangerous hobby.
Waiter, what's that elephant doing in my soup...
One morning I shot a elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know. - Groucho Marx, Animal Crackers
Did you take the sickly elephant to someplace in Alabama?
Not sure I want to continue this discussion other than to point out that my only point was exactly what British said, “... safari, not to forget that it is a dangerous hobby.” You seldom see people with guns in the hotels and camps on safari, but you can trust that they are there and readily available. There are not just animals but people in nearby areas that are a threat. That is why the Mount Kenya Safari Club became an armed camp for the president’s visit. We were nearly ‘pulled out’ of Africa by Tauck on our first K&T when there were terrorist attacks in Arusha. One does not leave the hotel in Nairobi without an ‘escort’. “at a hotel with no threat to humans”. I’m not trying to humiliate anyone ... that is not me ... just trying to provide some realistic perspective. Africa is my favorite place on the planet, but it deserves a great deal of caution and respect.
These pictures were taken in Zambia on our B,Z, and SA safari, posted only to show us exercising a “great deal of caution”(;-). This type of activity is available in several places including Zimbabwe where others on this site have walked with the lions. Some of these operators were found to be of questionable repute and have been shut down.
Sealord, perhaps you can explain the context of the lion photos. That is in Southern Africa. The ‘Walking with Lions’ place was featured on 60 minutes around the time Sealord visited. The lions were bred in captivity and used with tourists until they became too big. They were not released into the Wild as tourists were told but taken to one of the places where you can pay to shoot them. It was on the Tauck itinerary until then. They removed it and went to a rhino sanctioned which is where we went to on the Botswana tour.
We met Sealord briefly at the Arusha hotel in 2014 Prior to the start of our Tanzania Zanzibar tour and his K and T tour. There was a terror bomb that exploded in the town several miles away. When our tour began our Tour Director asked that we always carry all our valuables with us on each Safari, she did not explain why, but we carried our passports and medicines with us. We were not told about the bombing, but I knew about it because I had already read about it on the BBC news. We were already a smaller group than usual because of the Ebola scare thousands of miles away that made many people cancel that year.
To put things into context, you are more likes to get shot or catch Covid in the US than you are in Africa.
Thank you cathyandsteve. I feel pretty certain that our lions were not taken out to the barn and shot like “Old Yeller”. In the past ... in my youth ... I was a hunter, and like William Holden, one day I just said I don’t want to do this anymore. That being said, in Zambia game hunting is legal, and when the lions are released into the wild they will go where the go, and there fate may be with the hunter. Zambia charges large fees to hunt animals, and those fees are supposed to be used for conservation efforts. Interestingly, lion trophies may not be imported to the US but they may be imported to the UK.
If the lions were very young when they were brought to the sanctuary, then they would not have had time to learn how to hunt. They have to learn this skill from their mothers. If they are truly let out into the reserve, they would likely starve because of limited hunting skills or come into contact with the lions in the reserve and into their territory. They would also be a threat to any humans they come across.
The hunting money is supposed to be plowed back into animal conservation, so that is a positive. The lions bred for both the Makuna 5 and then hunting, at least its not depleting the wild population.
I’m sorry, I’ve brought this Subject up too often on this forum. I think Tauck did the right thing taking the Walking with Lions off their itinerary, as a result of the negative publicity on 60 minutes. If people want to go, they can do so independently before the Tauck tour begins. I just want people to be aware of the realities. No lions have been successfully released in this program.
I did find a scientific paper on this subject.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259430151_Walking_with_lions_Why_there_is_no_role_for_captive-origin_lions_Panthera_leo_in_species_restoration
We watch hundreds of wildlife programs and like to think we have gained a lot of knowledge about lion behavior from them, and we read about it too,including the importance of young lions learning how to hunt, adaptations in different lion habitats, and the dangers of random single lions finding themselves strolling into the territory of another Pride.
I’m not making any kind of judgements, I’m just wanting the facts to be known so that the lion encounters are not over romanticized.
We chose not to seek out taking the Walking with Lions tour when we took the Botswana tour. By then, it was the Rhino sanctuary that was part of the tour. I was actually relieved because I would have been really nervous with the lions. I guess I know too much.
We did have the good fortune of being able to pet famous Sylvester the cheetah, now deceased, at a sanctuary on the Tauck South Africa Elegant Adventure. He was orphaned at a very young age and hand reared by one of the keepers at the sanctuary and they were devoted to each other, it must have been very sad when he died as I think it was very sudden. He of course would never have been able to be released.
Here is the heart warming story of Sylvester
https://vicfallswildlifetrust.org/2019/01/31/victoria-falls-wildlife-trust-announces-passing-of-cheetah-ambassador-sylvester/
I also enjoyed the interaction with Sylvester during the South Africa Elegant tour, he did have a great relationship with his keeper.
Does anyone understand (a good guess counts extra points) why the lodging in Arusha has changed from the Arusha Serena hotel and grounds to the Gran Malia Arusha? We thought that the Serena was a fantastic introduction to Africa for those never having been there and the lodging was very unique. Maybe closer to the airport? I know it is new and modern but that doesn't make it more attractive for first time Safari folks. Maybe elephants come up to the pool like at the Four Seasons?
I liked the Serena hotel but would have liked a a pool to swim in. Tauck just seems to be staying in fancier hotels as the years go by and hence the big increases in prices of the tours. I hated the Four Seasons on my most recent K and T tour. The original hotels in my first K and T tour about twelve years ago were much more authentic and unique
Virginia_Travelers - I doubt you'll see any game at the Gran Melia. It is located much more in town. There is a golf course just across the street from the hotel. The Serena was definitely unique and walking around Lake Deluti was a good way to brush off the jet lag of getting there.
I think Tauck constantly assesses hotels. I bet they get lots of negative comments about any hotels that don't have enough of the modern amenities that we've grown accustomed to having - abundant outlets for charging and plugging in all of our electronics. When reasonable options exist that address negative comments that Tauck receives, assuming the comments were numerous enough, then they switch hotels.
British - I can buy into your assessment of unique, but not so much authentic. I think it's likely that when you say authentic you might mean rustic. Personally, just because I'm in Africa to see the animals in a reasonably natural setting doesn't mean I need to sleep in a sleeping bag under the stars and eat around a campfire to have an enjoyable and 'authentic' experience. I enjoyed the stay at the Four Seasons. The rooms looked right out onto the Serengeti and you could see, if you were lucky, animals not far from your room. That said I also enjoyed the nights at the Serena in Arusha and the luxury tented rooms in the Masai Mara.
I loved staying at The Arusha Serena with its unique rooms spread out on its lovely grounds. It was a wonderful introduction to Africa. The staff were fantastic- friendly and helpful. But it would be nice to laze around a beautiful pool while dealing with jet lag. I noticed that the tour no longer goes to the Tanzania Cultural Center but the Gran Melia is nearby (<15 min by car). I thoroughly enjoyed roaming around looking at the crafts and talking with some of the artisans.
We never stayed in rustic camps, just more luxury tented camps. Stayed in one camp in Tanzania where elephants were roaming around just like at Eagle Island camp in Botswana. I remember the cultural center when it was a much smaller affair and the unpaved roads all around Arusha before the Chinese built the new ones that are better than the roads in PA where we live. Our second time in Arusha they had literally just been completed.
Sam, our next Africa tour is the newest one African Odessy next year. Pandemic permitting. Next plan to be In Arusha with all our family in 2024 to celebrating our fiftieth anniversary.
British - Are you referring to the Wildlife Odyssey? I can’t find an African Odyssey.
Oh dear, yes! About to message you
We liked the Serena lodge in Arusha. But our next will be our third trip, so a little change will probably be welcome. Getting in a day early to try to deal with the severe jet-lag, it probably does not matter much where we are staying. On our first trip Eloise ripped a lamp off the wall thinking it was the handle to the bathroom. This year’s trip for which I still have not canceled the air, grew by seven hours. I had bought ‘coach comfort’ seats which are not refundable, but the airfare we should get back. I just want to be back in Africa. I can’t imagine being “Out of Africa” with no intention of returning.
Smiling Sam and all - we also really enjoyed the Four Seasons. It was a very good respite from being on the road. Getting escorted back to our room at night by the Massai was certainly an interesting experience. Our room happened to be the farthest one from the main lobby. Seeing the animals from the room and the evening's entertainment while enjoying dinner was amazing. For an opposite experience we also thoroughly enjoyed our tent stay at the Fairmont Mara Safari Club. We could just look down the hill at the hundred hippos and hear them throughout the evening and yet in the morning they were all gone. I remember we had severe winds the first night that surely made it a wild evening trying to stay warm and trying to keep the flaps down safely. I'm sure Sealord remembers that !
All these experiences just remind us that we went on a trip of a lifetime and one we will never forget no matter the lodging at night !!
We were at the Four Seasons with a Bridges tour about 2 years ago. I was sitting on the balcony looking at my I-Pad and I looked up and there was a big baboon sitting on the railing of the balcony about 10 feet away from me. He was just staring at me. Didn't know if I should run or just sit there but, luckily, didn't have to make the choice. He moved - thank God!
As you may remember, you had to sign a waiver just to stay at the Four Seasons ... no fence. The animals could come and go as they pleased. Perhaps the best bathroom I’ve ever seen. I loved the Four Seasons! Maybe next time we will get a room with a view of the waterhole.
After having a few drinks the trick was walking the bending and moving walkway and avoiding the tse tse flies while being escorted by the Warriors back to the room ! Good thing we had our flashlights. There was no telling what was really beneath the walkway !
My strategy was looking straight ahead - never looking down...and continuously talking to ‘create noise’ to alert all animals that I was coming and they should scoot away!
Nancy -- reminds me of the scene in The Parent Trap where Hayley Mills (yes -- THAT version of The Parent Trap!) walked through the woods knocking two sticks together to scare off any bears.
When we did K&T several years ago, there was a small conference (Four Seasons employees) going on. One night one of the attendees couldn't get back to her room for a few hours because a big bull elephant was blocking her way. It took awhile before the staff was able to convince the elephant to "move along, nothing to see here."
When Joycesw went, the previous occupants of their assigned room forgot to close the deck door the previous day when they checked out. It didn't take long for the baboons to enter the room and really trash it. The staff wasn't able to clean and repair it before Joyce and her husband checked in, so they were given a really nice, upgraded room.
That’s a roll eyes situation. I remember numerous warnings about not leaving the doors open. That being said, I’ve recently had a hawk in the living room, and there was a bear in a tree two bocks away three days ago. We are not in a “country” environment ... and we are not in Africa.