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New Vaccine Discussion/Question

Smiling Sam

Both approved vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) require two shots for full effectiveness. I believe for the Pfizer vaccine you must wait three weeks before getting the second shot. For the Moderna vaccine you must wait four weeks. My question is what are the restrictions for the second shot windows for the two shot combinations to have full effectiveness?

As an example,

For the Pfizer vaccine if I get the first shot on March 1st, what is the window within I must get the second shot for the two shot combination to have full effectiveness. I know I can't get the second shot until March 22nd (the three week wait), but how much after March 22nd can I get the second shot and still have the two shot combination have full effectiveness? Can I get the second shot on March 31st and still have the two shots have full effectiveness? What is the window restriction/limit?

I have the same question about the second shot window for the Moderna shots.

I apologize to the people that believe this isn't travel related.

Comments

BKMD

Bottom line, nobody knows. A clinical trial would be necessary to determine that.

And on a semi-related note, I read an article online yesterday that the Israeli counterpart of Dr. Fauci has found immunity after the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine is less effective than stated by Pfizer.
https://www.wjr.com/news/israels-fauci-1st-pfizer-dose-less-effective-than-billed/

Choc

When we got our Moderna vaccine we were told we had a 5 day window ,two days before the second date and 2 days after. Our second date was to be Feb 2. however they called us to be back for the second dose on the first. We were also told that after the second dose it could be 2 to 4 weeks before one reaches full immunity.

Choc

We also have the yellow card

Smiling Sam

Choc
7:20AM
When we got our Moderna vaccine we were told we had a 5 day window ,two days before the second date and
2 days after.

Thanks. Just curious when you were told about the 5 day (±2 days) window. Was it prior to scheduling your first shot or when you showed up for your first shot. If you had been unavailable anytime within that 5 day window would they have made you reschedule your first shot? If you knew in advance then you would have known better about your availability for the second.

I submitted the question to our county health organization but have not heard back yet. The automated response said it could be 48 -72 hours before I receive an actual response.

British

There is a great article in the New York Times this morning about why you should not decline a vaccines if offered, even if you think others deserve it more than you, I’m trying to paste it here....it won’t work, see if you can get to read it.

BKMD

Point-counterpoint:
Re the Israeli data, they've immunized just under 3 million at this point. That is a very significant number, controlled or not. I don't recall how many were analyzed for the Pfizer study's efficacy numbers, but I believe it was less than 100 thousand.

Choc

They gave us an appointment for our second shot the day we got our first. I would clear my calendar to get this vaccine. I feel that the health department’s schedules are more important than mine. My health is very important to me

Smiling Sam

British
7:54AM
Re being “unavailable” when second shot is scheduled, I am struggling to understand what one would prioritize
over going for your second shot!

I appreciate your response, but an answer to my question about the acceptable time window for the second shot would have been more appreciated than your 'I am struggling' comment. How about your daughter taking a turn for the worse with her breast cancer and you have to travel out of state to be with her. Would that pass judgment for a reason one might be unavailable for a second shot.

I want to take the vaccines, but I would hate to take a first shot knowing there is a possibility of not being available for the second shot, thus a) wasting a vaccine and b) taking a scheduling spot from someone who would be available. I'm just trying to understand all of the parameters with respect to the two shots so that I can intelligently and considerately schedule them.

Images_Quirky_Eye

Had my first today -- Moderna. The scheduling system varies by State. In CT, it's all handled by their Vaccine Administration Managment System. It's rather complicated (don't know how those that are not computer-savvy deal with it), requiring establishing an account, with back and forth emails, allergy questionaires, etc.

But, here, one does not have to get the second shot at the same location as the first -- and it can be difficult to schedule the second shot. As far as I can tell, they system would only let me schedule #2 for 28 days from the initial. So I had to enlargen the Search criteria, and found an appointment at a drive-thru site about 20 miles away.

So, it depends on your State.

British

Sam and BKMD. Sent you private messages.

Kathy0529

Morning - I just saw Dr. Fauci on CNN this morning and I guess the CDC has said you could get the 2nd dose up to 6 weeks after the first. You may be able to YouTube the interview and watch the discussion. That came up near the end of the interview , just FYI.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html

“The second dose should be administered as close to the recommended interval as possible. However, if it is not feasible to adhere to the recommended interval, the second dose of Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines may be scheduled for administration up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose. There are currently limited data on efficacy of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines administered beyond this window. If the second dose is administered beyond these intervals, there is no need to restart the series.“

Sam - you, your daughter and rest of your family are in my thoughts.

Smiling Sam

Kathy0529
4:42AM

I saw something similar about there not being a hard requirement on when you get the second shot. As long as it met the minimum requirement the second shot could be received up to 6 or 8 weeks later. That said, they recommend getting it as close to the minimum requirement (3 weeks for Pfizer, 4 weeks for Moderna) as possible.

This makes me feel much more comfortable getting the first shot whenever it is my turn from a priority perspective, knowing that there is some flexibility in the timing of the second shot, in case I have to do some emergency travel I won't be wasting a vaccine.

Thanks for you thoughts. Hopefully things go positively.

AlanS

If you look at this rationally, there is no hard and fast magic "Use by date" or else.

I'm sure the big pharmas just did their best analysis (or guess) to come up with a injection schedule and then used that during the trials. While there are undoubtedly other factors, I think the main push for following the schedule is that they don't have any test data for any other schedules (one of the reasons it normally takes years and years to get drugs approved.) How much of a difference in efficacy will there be if you get the second injection a few days or a week, etc. early or late? How about getting a third shot if the second is administered late. I don't think any of those situations will harm you and the efficacy will be by degree, not a hard yes/no. And, of course, we still don't know long term efficacy. Will we be going through this again next year, in two years, etc.?

British

Where is the evidence for this?

Choc

Sam. If you do have to travel between shots. Perhaps you can schedule your second one when you get to your destination.

BKMD

Where I live, you have to get vaccinated in your county of residence.

Sealord

Not so in California. We live in Marin but our healthcare provider is UCSF in San Francisco. That is where we got vaccinated.

By the way, the side affects from our Moderna yesterday have been no more than a little soreness at the injection site.

AlanS

Not so in NC either. We registered and will likely get the shots in an adjacent and more populous (and better organized) county.

Smiling Sam

In Arizona you have to get the vaccine in the county in which you live or work, or at a state facility. Of course the state facility is in Glendale (2.5 hours each way from our house) and there is typically an hour wait once you're there, even with your appointment.

I've heard that some people are scamming the system at drive up facilities. They get one person in the car that qualifies per the priorities and then they've been able to talk the people giving the vaccines to provide them to everyone else in the car.

British

Cathy”s husband begged them to give Cathy a shot too and they wouldn’t do it.

Sealord

I just re-read the information I got at our vaccination yesterday. They said there is ‘no’ information about the Moderna vaccine working with any other vaccine.

British

No wonder people are anti vacers

JohnS

I just came across this article about mixing Pfizer and Moderna shots and the CDC is now saying that it is OK in exceptional situations.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/cdc-changes-covid-vaccine-guidance-to-ok-mixing-pfizer-and-moderna-shots-in-exceptional-si.html

Washington state just opened up vaccine eligibility for us older persons (65+) this week. After a few online attempts I was able go get through to our medical clinic and both my wife and I got scheduled for tomorrow. I don't know if it will be Pfizer or Moderna but I will take whatever they give us. My only concern is that they will run out of vaccines before we get there. I have heard that this is happening in places.

British

The World Health Organization has recommended a gap of four weeks between doses - to be extended only in exceptional circumstances to six weeks.
The above comes from the BBC
And this ......the UK first decided about a 12 week gap being doses being OK

Deep concern' over UK approach
In the letter to Prof Whitty, seen by the BBC, the British Medical Association (BMA) said it agreed that the vaccine should be rolled out "as quickly as possible" - but called for an urgent review and for the gap to be reduced.
The doctors' union said the UK's strategy "has become increasingly isolated internationally" and "is proving evermore difficult to justify".
"The absence of any international support for the UK's approach is a cause of deep concern and risks undermining public and the profession's trust in the vaccination programme," the letter said.
Dr Chaand Nagpaul, chair of the BMA, said there were "growing concerns" that the vaccine could become less effective with doses 12 weeks apart.
"Obviously the protection will not vanish after six weeks, but what we do not know is what level of protection will be offered [after that point]," he told BBC Breakfast.
"We should not be extrapolating data when we don't have it."

Sealord

UCSF specified 28 days between Moderna shots with wiggle room of only a couple days. We will have our next shots on February 20th.

AlanS

Between the local health dept and University Health organization, scheduling was/is scrambled here in E. NC. We've been on a waitlist since last week but no one could tell us where or when it would happen. Then today we learned people called this morning and got shot appts as early as Tuesday! I called and we will get our shots Tuesday afternoon!

Great post on Facebook:

"If Amazon was put in charge of the vaccine everyone would have received it by Saturday . . . . or Thursday if Prime!"

That would be funny if it weren't so true.

MCD

NH has now changed its rules and allowed people over 65 to register starting last Friday. I was able to get an appointment for Feb. 3. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we don't have a snowstorm that day! Changing the subject slightly, I'm not spending time worrying about what the Covid testing requirements for travel are at this point. I figure that they will keep changing (and my tours will keep getting cancelled) for months to come.

British

We have heard nothing from our county since registering, but they have now said they will no longer vaccinate anyone who does not live in the county as they have been doing and will honor already made appointments for those people. Today, we made the first attempts to get an appointment elsewhere, the first I can get is May 27th. I guess I had too much faith that the powers that be would prioritize fairly. As long as I can dodge Covid until then, I’m not worried about travel because the earliest tour for us is Israel and Jordan in April, it’s sure to be canceled soon. All Covid prevention behavior is going to remain the same for some time. Our usual hobbies like theater will still be no sooner in opening , even Broadway, that’s not happening until at least June. Joe Biden, we are relying on you to change things.

British

Oh dear Cathy. I’m so glad one of you got the vaccine, I thought you might get it more easily in a rural setting.

BKMD

Cathy - I know this doesn't do you any good, but in Colorado a funeral home worker is on the list of essential workers and is eligible for the vaccine now. FWIW, I still have to wait, too, for Phase 2.