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Possible expansion of Laptop / Electronics Ban

Ken from Vegas

CBS and Fox, among others, have reported that Homeland Security is considering extending the ban on large electronics in the cabin to flights to the US originating in continental Europe and possibly the UK. If enacted, this would mean that tablets, cameras, e-readers and other electronics larger than a cell phone would have to be placed in checked luggage on your way home. They say that this could be enacted as soon as June.

I, for one, will be very upset if this comes to pass. I rely on my tablet for entertainment on long flights. I would hate to put my DSLR or tablet in checked luggage. Between lost luggage and sticky fingered baggage inspectors that seems like a really bad idea. Notably, this ban does not apply to flights from other countries. So if you're willing to change planes in Toronto (for example), you could avoid the ban. Air Canada - here I come.

Anyway, I'm passing this on so that people traveling to Europe will be aware and watch for further developments. I would google "laptop ban" before leaving and also check the TSA page. The worst would be if you were already in Europe when it was announced and went into effect. Hopefully, they will give us a little advance notice. If not, I may be sending my electronics home by FEDEX.

Comments

Claudia Sails

Thanx Ken. This could be a pain. I've been vasillating between bringing my baby kindle Fire or one of my regular ereaders. Might have to dust off my old keyboard Kindle. My Fire is actually the cheapest one I have but the most data on it I'd be worried if a thief got. It's got a security code on it but not sure whether more could be done to protect data.

Will keep watching the news.

[Deleted User]

This would, indeed, change the travel experience immensely. Both the security concerns about checking your devices and the lack of access to them while in the air (I'm almost always on my Kindle reading). If this becomes widespread, I think it is likely that airlines will be forced to adopt some form of checking devices into a secure container which (I think) has already been proposed and/or tested by the airlines currently affected. That, at least should take care of most of the concern of theft, but it'll add a lot of processing time at the gate or more likely at check-in since the only way they'd be able to keep them off planes would be to stop them at the security checkpoint.

AlanS

I would like to add a few comments-

First, it is not known if and when the new restrictions will be implemented, but likely soon.

Second, the details are sketchy- most notably, while laptops will likely be prohibited, it is unknown if tablets will prohibited also, or to take it a step farther, if all electronics, including cell phones, will be included.

While some would like to blame the current administration, this ban is reportedly based on credible intelligence. As you know from past incidents with shoe and underwear bombers, etc. terrorists have attempted to slip explosives aboard aircraft. The new screening machines we have in the US are starting to appear in Europe. They do a great job and can detect even the most minute amounts of explosive materials. But the bad guys are getting smarter and better. I'm just speculating here, but I suspect there might be intelligence indicating that it is possible to construct a bomb that has sufficient power to damage an aircraft and which can fit in a laptop, even one that still has components and appears to operate, at least enough to fool security. The other obvious danger is using a cellular, wifi, or even Bluetooth equipped cell phone, tablet, or other electronic device, even a camera, many of which come with Wifi or Bluetooth, to trigger an explosive device in checked baggage that was not detected during baggage screening. Of course, a timer would obviate the need for a remote triggering device. Baggage screening takes on a whole new meaning. Anyway, I don't think it will be long before we find out what the plan will be.

Though a bit far off, a possible airline solution might be to provide seat-back entertainment systems that are fully functional tablets/laptops- so all you would need to carry on is thumb drive or SD memory stick with your movie, audio, or document files. Of course, they would need to figure out how to prevent malware/hacking- you wouldn't want your kids to be watching a Disney move and have it switch to a porno! Of course, they could also wrap the cabin and make it a "Faraday Cage" that would block signals.

The computer industry could help by making laptops and tablets with transparent cases and sniffer ports so they are easier to check.

Of course, you know what they say about a 'better mousetrap?'

What has this world come to?

Ken from Vegas

Alan, I feel I must correct a couple of misconceptions you have. First, the scope of the ban is pretty clear (subject to change, of course). The ban is already in place for 10 Middle Eastern and African countries. Homeland Security is considering extending that ban. If you look on the TSA page, the current ban includes all electronics larger than a cell phone from the cabin. The items I discussed are specifically mentioned.

Also, WIFI and Bluetooth are not the concern. Phones are not banned. Any small device in the baggage hold would likely be contained by surrounding baggage. The concern is that a small device could be placed against the cabin wall and detonated manually, rupturing the integrity of the cabin wall. As the Wall Street journal said in an article today, "U.S. authorities are concerned that an explosive device hidden in an electronic device could be manually triggered in the cabin, or use power sockets in the plane to detonate it, according to people familiar with airline security plans."

I find it amazing, that an item as small as a tablet or a camera could cause enough damage, but I'm no expert.

From what I understand, the airlines are expressing concern that this would require secondary screening on hundreds of flights a day. They are also concerned that hundreds of lithium batteries in checked baggage would itself pose a safety issue.

British

My cynical hubby thinks there is any excuse now to ban phones in the cabin so no- one can video things going on in the cabin like manhandling of passengers. Me, I think terrorists have moved on from anything to do with planes, they have been very effective just ramming trucks and cars into crowds of people on any old street. But of course we cannot put down our guard and reduce security on planes. If they bans phones on planes, I am going to invest in cell phone rental and re-installing telephone kiosks everywhere. Keep safe every one, but keep traveling!

AlanS

Ken from Vegas wrote:

Alan, I feel I must correct a couple of misconceptions you have.

No misconceptions here- No one knows what the eventual ban will look like, if there is one, or if there will be a follow-on to that one. I'm not talking about a potential extended version of the existing ban, not a version of what exists now, but extended to other countries, and not a ban based on what the "public" thinks they know or what has been published in the WSJ or put on a website. You'll never see nor read the whole story. FYI, I used to work in a three letter "Agency."

Whatever it is, I hope it doesn't take effect until we bet back from Romantic Germany.

Ken from Vegas

From the L A TImes:

Department of Homeland Security officials met with airline industry representatives Thursday to discuss the possibility of expanding a ban on laptop computers and other large electronic devices as carry-ons on planes flying to the U.S. from Europe.

Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly ended the meeting with no decision to adopt an expansion but promised to continue to study the idea...

The potential move would expand restrictions imposed in March by the U.S. and Britain on electronic devices larger than a smartphone in passenger cabins of flights from eight Middle Eastern and African countries...

Earlier in the day, the European Union called for urgent meetings with U.S. officials to discuss any potential expansion.

“We propose that meetings are held as a matter of urgency, both at political and technical level, to jointly assess the risk and review possible common measures,” according to a letter written by Violeta Bulc, EU transport commissioner, and Dimitris Avramopoulos, commissioner for migration, home affairs and citizenship. The letter, seen by Reuters, was addressed to Kelly and Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao...

CNN has reported that U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies believe that the Islamic State group and other terrorist organizations have developed new ways to plant explosives in electronic devices that could evade some common airport security screening methods.

CNN cited unnamed intelligence officials saying that terrorists would have a more difficult time detonating an explosive remotely and that placing laptops and other devices in the cargo bay might reduce damage even if a bomb were to explode.

joycesw

Perhaps this is a simplification, but...shall I watch my movie or be blown up at 30,000 feet? A no-brainer!

Ken from Vegas

Here's the latest after the Wednesday meeting between EU and American officials. BBC News reports that the US and EU rejected the laptop ban (this is probably wishful thinking, based on other reports). AP says that it's off the table for now. Fox News says that the airlines believe that it will happen eventually. The Financial Times says that the US is now considering a laptop ban for all flights into the US from anywhere in the world. FT also says that ample notice will be given by the US to the airlines and governments before a ban is implemented.

My interpretation of the various reports is that the ban is still under consideration, but they are now realizing that it will take some doing to implement (additional gate screening, what to do with electronics found at the gate, etc.). So I think there will be a bit of time before a ban is implemented (if at all). The airlines are pushing for additional screening at existing checkpoints (like turning on your device and sniffing for explosive residue), but it seems like Homeland wants more. US and EU officials meet again next Wednesday.

Ken from Vegas

Latest from Reuters on May 24:

DHS spokesman David Lapan told reporters at a briefing there was "nothing imminent" that would require an immediate decision to expand the ban on laptops, which currently applies to 10 mostly Middle Eastern airports. He also said there has been no discussion on expanding the ban to domestic U.S. flights or flights leaving the United States.

Lapan reiterated that DHS still believed it was "likely" the U.S. ban will be expanded. He said talks with Europe were not a "negotiation" over whether to expand the airports covered because Homeland Security director John Kelly would make any decision based strictly on an analysis of threats.

Lapan said the United States would give airports at least the same four-day notice it gave Middle Eastern and other airlines in March before the restrictions took effect, but said it could be longer.

My take on this before I leave for my Tauck trip to Scandinavia:

The ban remains likely and could be expanded to Europe on as little as four days notice. If you're going to Europe, don't take any electronics larger than a cell phone that you aren't willing to put in checked luggage. I'll be reluctantly leaving my DSLR at home and taking a point and shoot camera. I'll still take my tablet, but I recognize that I may have to put it in checked luggage on the way home.

Since I'll be traveling I won't provide any updates for the next 2-3 weeks.

Claudia Sails

Thanx for keeping us up to date Ken. I was vacillating on which Kindle to bring. Thankfully my oldest still takes a charge so I think it will be getting a trip soon to Europe.

Good luck on you trip.