“At the time of the crash, the 29-year-old Captain had amassed 8,122 flight hours including 1,417 on the Boeing 737. However, only 103 of those hours were on a Boeing 737 Max. Getachew was a 2010 graduate of the Ethiopian Aviation Academy and was type rated to be a first officer on the Boeing 737NG, 757, 767, 777, and 787 Dreamliner. He was certified to be a 737 Max pilot-in-command on July 3, 2018.
First Officer Mohammed was less experienced, with ****just 361 flight hours**** to his name. Of which 207 were on the Boeing 737 including 56 hours on the Max. The 25-year-0ld was certified to serve as a first officer on Boeing 737-700/800 aircraft as well as the 737 Max.”
The above are the qualifications of the pilots of Ethiopian 302 that crashed. The poor design of the MCAS system caused the ‘problem’, but it was a ‘flyable’ aircraft, if the correct procedure had been followed. To be a first officer in the U.S. you must have a minimum of 1,500 flight hours and a ‘type rating’ in that aircraft. If you do the math on the F/O you can see that he started flying the 737 with a whopping 154 hours of total flight time. How much of that flight time was on the autopilot? I would rather trade an F/O with those qualifications for two hundred pounds of fuel. The Captain was basically flying ‘solo’ when the malfunction occurred. You may draw your own conclusions.
First line: “Interesting article for those who like this airline.”
My point: Perhaps we are better off if they fly cargo. (;-)
You might find this article interesting. I fly major airlines not based in the East ... but I only have 25,000 hours flying commercial aircraft. What do I know? Oh ... I also have landings on eleven aircraft carriers, so I’m not exactly a nervous flier.
I am fully aware of the events leading to your comments. The attention I gave to my above article was the ability of airlines To adapt themselves so that they survive for future travel.
Sealord, could you enlighten the forum readers how pilots have to keep up to date with flying hours during this time to keep up their licenses? It’s something I’ve been wondering about.
I’ve been reading about the storage of airplanes in Australia. One place in Alice Springs is dull up and authorities are having to scramble to find somewhere else suitable to store planes during the Pandemic. I understand desert climate is the best place to store them to help minimize corrosion and things like that..
British - There are several places in Arizona that are used for temporary and permanent storage/resting places for airplanes, both military and commercial. Some scenes from different movies have been filmed in these locations. A military storage location is located in Tucson. It is generally called the "Boneyard". It is used for storing military planes of both type - temporarily not needed that are being stored and others that have been scraped, some of which are used for parts. There are several B52s that were destroyed here as part of one of the treaties with Russia. Tours of this facility are available through the Pima County Air and Space Museum.
I suggest they stick to transporting cargo. Last December I needed to join a Tauck tour of Kenya, Tanzania and Rwanda. United Airlines flew me from SFO to Tel Aviv on their own plane, then transferred me to Ethiopian Airlines (one of their partners). I saw the luggage being transferred to EA in Tel Aviv; however, when I in arrived in Tanzania my luggage was missing. Over the next three days in Arusha (luckily I had added on days at the beginning) EA called me twice to tell me they had the luggage and I should wait in my room (not do the touring I had planned with the expense of the extra days) so I could sign for the delivery planned for the next few hours. Both times they failed to show up; when I called to check on the status of the delivery I was told both times the luggage was lost again. The luggage was not delivered until the first night at our second stop (Ngorongoro) and only after our tour director called EA headquarters, tracked this down and arranged for delivery. Total incompetence from everyone I dealt with and I would never set foot on EA again.
The answer to British’s question: Most of the rules deal with maximum amount of time an airline pilot can work, and how little time they can rest. They have to make three manual takeoffs and landings every 90 days, and they receive simulator training either every 6 months or 9 months depending how the training is planned, in order to stay current. I know the airlines have been ‘sharing’ the available flying to insure that their active pilots get much more than that, as opposed to having a few senior pilots flying high time ‘lines’ of flying. Pilots are paid by the hour with a monthly minimum guarantee. I typically flew between 75 and 80 hours per month. One thousand hours per year was the maximum allowed, with other daily, weekly, and monthly limitations.
A little sideline: One of the most common maneuvers to cause a new Captain to fail an upgrade is being unable to complete a satisfactory manual visual approach without reference to an instrument approach system. I once had a first officer who needed three attempts to make a landing at Reno on a clear and sunny day. He finally got it down on the third try.
Comments
“At the time of the crash, the 29-year-old Captain had amassed 8,122 flight hours including 1,417 on the Boeing 737. However, only 103 of those hours were on a Boeing 737 Max. Getachew was a 2010 graduate of the Ethiopian Aviation Academy and was type rated to be a first officer on the Boeing 737NG, 757, 767, 777, and 787 Dreamliner. He was certified to be a 737 Max pilot-in-command on July 3, 2018.
First Officer Mohammed was less experienced, with ****just 361 flight hours**** to his name. Of which 207 were on the Boeing 737 including 56 hours on the Max. The 25-year-0ld was certified to serve as a first officer on Boeing 737-700/800 aircraft as well as the 737 Max.”
The above are the qualifications of the pilots of Ethiopian 302 that crashed. The poor design of the MCAS system caused the ‘problem’, but it was a ‘flyable’ aircraft, if the correct procedure had been followed. To be a first officer in the U.S. you must have a minimum of 1,500 flight hours and a ‘type rating’ in that aircraft. If you do the math on the F/O you can see that he started flying the 737 with a whopping 154 hours of total flight time. How much of that flight time was on the autopilot? I would rather trade an F/O with those qualifications for two hundred pounds of fuel. The Captain was basically flying ‘solo’ when the malfunction occurred. You may draw your own conclusions.
My link has nothing to do with your above comments, it’s about the airline being used for Cargo in Covid time
Sorry. (;-)
Your ‘discussion title’ is Ethiopian Airlines.
First line: “Interesting article for those who like this airline.”
My point: Perhaps we are better off if they fly cargo. (;-)
You might find this article interesting. I fly major airlines not based in the East ... but I only have 25,000 hours flying commercial aircraft. What do I know? Oh ... I also have landings on eleven aircraft carriers, so I’m not exactly a nervous flier.
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/experienced-crew-struggled-with-instrument-flight-after-737-lost-autopilots/140072.article
I am fully aware of the events leading to your comments. The attention I gave to my above article was the ability of airlines To adapt themselves so that they survive for future travel.
Sealord, could you enlighten the forum readers how pilots have to keep up to date with flying hours during this time to keep up their licenses? It’s something I’ve been wondering about.
I’ve been reading about the storage of airplanes in Australia. One place in Alice Springs is dull up and authorities are having to scramble to find somewhere else suitable to store planes during the Pandemic. I understand desert climate is the best place to store them to help minimize corrosion and things like that..
British - There are several places in Arizona that are used for temporary and permanent storage/resting places for airplanes, both military and commercial. Some scenes from different movies have been filmed in these locations. A military storage location is located in Tucson. It is generally called the "Boneyard". It is used for storing military planes of both type - temporarily not needed that are being stored and others that have been scraped, some of which are used for parts. There are several B52s that were destroyed here as part of one of the treaties with Russia. Tours of this facility are available through the Pima County Air and Space Museum.
I suggest they stick to transporting cargo. Last December I needed to join a Tauck tour of Kenya, Tanzania and Rwanda. United Airlines flew me from SFO to Tel Aviv on their own plane, then transferred me to Ethiopian Airlines (one of their partners). I saw the luggage being transferred to EA in Tel Aviv; however, when I in arrived in Tanzania my luggage was missing. Over the next three days in Arusha (luckily I had added on days at the beginning) EA called me twice to tell me they had the luggage and I should wait in my room (not do the touring I had planned with the expense of the extra days) so I could sign for the delivery planned for the next few hours. Both times they failed to show up; when I called to check on the status of the delivery I was told both times the luggage was lost again. The luggage was not delivered until the first night at our second stop (Ngorongoro) and only after our tour director called EA headquarters, tracked this down and arranged for delivery. Total incompetence from everyone I dealt with and I would never set foot on EA again.
The answer to British’s question: Most of the rules deal with maximum amount of time an airline pilot can work, and how little time they can rest. They have to make three manual takeoffs and landings every 90 days, and they receive simulator training either every 6 months or 9 months depending how the training is planned, in order to stay current. I know the airlines have been ‘sharing’ the available flying to insure that their active pilots get much more than that, as opposed to having a few senior pilots flying high time ‘lines’ of flying. Pilots are paid by the hour with a monthly minimum guarantee. I typically flew between 75 and 80 hours per month. One thousand hours per year was the maximum allowed, with other daily, weekly, and monthly limitations.
A little sideline: One of the most common maneuvers to cause a new Captain to fail an upgrade is being unable to complete a satisfactory manual visual approach without reference to an instrument approach system. I once had a first officer who needed three attempts to make a landing at Reno on a clear and sunny day. He finally got it down on the third try.
Very interesting, thanks
Nice Post!