Dreary COVID Travel Recommendation
CNN today had a article regarding what you should be able to do after getting the vaccine. Here's the section on travel:
Can I travel if I've been vaccinated?
"I want to emphasize that now is not the time to be traveling period, internationally or domestically, it's just not a good time to be traveling," said Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC's new director, in a CNN global town hall last week.And that applies to people who have already been vaccinated, added Fauci, the White House chief medical adviser. "Getting vaccinated does not say now I have a free pass to travel," Fauci said at the CNN global town hall. "Nor does it say that I have a free pass to put aside all of the public health measures that we talk about all the time."
"I mean, if you absolutely have to travel and it's essential, then obviously, one would have to do that. But we don't want people to think because they got vaccinated, then other public health recommendations just don't apply," Fauci said.
This is certainly making me rethink when I will be able to travel again.
If you want to read the full article, it can be found here:
What can I do now that I have the vaccine?
Comments
I got my first shot today (Pfizer) but could not get an appointment for the second shot until April 3. My trip to Israel and Jordan scheduled for mid-March was cancelled yesterday (as I had expected). I have no confidence that my June trip will happen, and have doubts about my Sept. trip. Still, I am thankful that my family and I remain healthy. I'm glad I travelled when I could!
MCD Thanks for the info about your Israel and Jordan cancellation. I was astounded last week when we called Tauck and the agent seemed to think our tour there would be going in April. She showed no interest or concern when we said we would be unlikely to have gotten our first vaccine by then. Vaccine is hard to come by in our county. When my husband had an annual appointment with his doctor just yesterday, the dr said he couldn’t even find a vaccine for his 90 year old father.
My two friends I used to see regularly for lunch each week have both had the first dose of the vaccine. When we zoom later this week, I’m fully expecting for them to be getting together for lunch without me, I’m now a third world non vaccinated person. I know older people should be getting the vaccine first, but I’m fed up of hearing about so many people jumping the line by cheating.
British, as AlanS stated previously,
Patience Young Grasshopper as a phrase used outside the fictional setting of Kung Fu the television show, means simply that “you need to develop more patience” and or “Be patient” in that moment.
British said:
If you read the article, it says that you shouldn't consider yourself fully vaccinated until you have had the second shot and have waited a few weeks for the second shot to be fully effective. Even then, they recommend against dining indoors at a restaurant.
Which doesn't make any sense whatsoever, as I'm unaware of any other disease for which there is a vaccine with a similar recommendation. Have you ever heard, "Don't go to a restuarant as you may catch measles"? Measles is one of the few diseases with an R0 greater than Covid, that is, more contagious.
Covid, like AIDS, has become a political entity, rather than a disease, with many guidelines led by politics, rather than science.
Smiling Sam, I used to be known for my incredible patience for many years, I think I’m losing it along with my sanity. I need a Tauck tour, or failing that, a seaside trip where I can walk along the beach each morning, then chill and read a book and take a swim every half hour. Can anyone makes this happen for me? 😂
BKMD. Most vaccines take about two weeks to be fully effective. It’s the fact that Covid can come out on the air we breathe out that makes it more unique. Still not enough time has gone by to fully understand if you can still carry Covid even when you have been vaccinated.
At least the guy who politicized all this is gone. But wouldn’t you know that one of his lawyers used to be the assistant DA of my county!
British - You can certainly hop in your car, drive down to Cape May, New Jersey, get out of the car, walk on the beach, put your tootsies in the water, get back in the car, read a book for a bit, and then drive home. That’s doable in a long day from Philadelphia, right? Might not be that much fun, but it checks most of your wishes, in a sense.
It does Sam, but I have to quarantine if I go out of state.Oh and Cape May is the only part of the shore I can tolerate not being born in this area
I doubt they would consider you having broke your quarantine if at no point during the wonderful trip I described did you ever come within 6 feet of another person. Which is doable on that trip.
BKMD, u r spot on. I have a brother who is a pulmonary dr. in Dallas and 2 brothers-in-law who r Phamacisists plus go to church with a Dr. in the AF. They laugh at all the "bovine balderdash" that is out on the news and internet. My wife and I travel and hope Tauck keeps on.
Measles is transmitted the same way.
BTW, I was going to suggest Atlantic City. it's closer than Cape May. I've been maintaining my sanity by dipping my skis in the snow. Skied yesterday, back home today and took a walk through a local park wearing shorts. It's been in the 60s here for the last 5 days! Seasonal temps (40s) return tomorrow.
Lets all wear 3 masks. That should stop it.
British- I think some of the Tauck Reservation Sales Agents might be getting PTSD- after talking with people (especially ones like me!
)
Everyone needs to remember, the vaccine should protect you from modest or severe COVID reactions, but you can still be infected and possibly be asymptomatic, and so, from everything I've read, you can still pass it to others.
I think I already shared this with British, but does everyone remember the big forum bruha over the severe health and safety procedures and policies Scylla AG(and Tauck) were instituting on the river boats? Most agreed, they were almost draconian!! Well, during my recent research I learned that Scylla AG ran a test cruise last summer, testing those procedures- the test was declared an unqualified success!
However . . . . . . look what happened in October, just a few months later!!!! https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/coronavirus-swiss-crystal-river-cruise-passengers-covid-b1424788.html
What part of PANDEMIC is it that you fail to understand?
“pan·dem·ic
/panˈdemik/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: pandemic
(of a disease) prevalent over a whole country or the world.”
We support our local merchants as soon as they are allowed to open. Right now it is outdoor dining only, so we dine outdoors ... and we were doing this before we got our first vaccine. We can go into stores and shops where there is much more ‘contact’ than in restaurants practicing social distancing, and that’s Okay. Our governor can go to the “French Laundry” restaurant and dine with twelve ‘friends’, but we are not supposed to have guests in our homes. What part of ... ‘arbitrary and capricious’ do you not understand?
What part of being IMMUNIZED don't you understand?
Don't forget, "they" whoever "they" are also recommended against wearing masks in March/April of 2020. It was during that time, I bought several boxes of N95 masks, knowing what change in policy would be coming in the near future.
If people would all wear good cloth masks properly, there would be no need for the general public to even think about those types of masks
I went out yesterday for first time in a week after our Covid scare. I went to pick up my routine meds from my pharmacy in the supermarket. I stood socially distanced behind one other person and where I could see the pharmacy assistant with her mask under her nose. By the time I got to her, she had grabbed it in the middle and it was just about touching the bottom of her nose. I politely asked her to cover her nose properly before I approached.
I then wizzed around the store to pick up three items of fresh fruit and veg. About fifteen feet away from me, I watched a woman pull down her mask, sneeze loudly and then put her mask back over her face. In the last isle, I watched an employee with a mask round his neck pull it up as I approached. When I got to the parking lot, I watched an unmasked man take his cart to the cart storage and hurl a large gob of spit right by the carts. A typical day when you go to that store. What’s more, it’s directly opposite one of the largest senior living centers just about anywhere.
Oh well, my will is written and all my paperwork is in order, you can cremate me and I don’t need any service, just make sure my kids stay alive to enjoy the money I was going to spend on Tauck vacations.
BKMD-
The point of my post was that the reason we don't wear masks for diseases that already have widespread vaccination is that they aren't in pandemic nor are they ever likely to be (thanks to the widely vaccinated population). I see now that a longer explanation is required.
The goal is to get the infection rate down as quickly as possible to lower the number of people who suffer the illness and thus lower the death count. Vaccines are a very important part of that but so is mask wearing and social distancing, even if you've been vaccinated. Here's some important things that help explain why. I've gleaned them from the media (including that article that was linked above).
Immunity is not total, even if you've been vaccinated:
The Moderna and Pfizer were shown in the test studies to 91-92% effective. That is very effective, but not totally effective. That means if you would have gotten the virus without the vaccine through some exposure, you still have about a 1 in 12 chance of contracting the virus (although the severity may also be reduced if you do contract it). Continuing to wear a mask and social distance will reduce your odds even further.
Just because you have the vaccine and don't get sick, it doesn't necessarily mean you can't infect others.
It is hoped that having the vaccine will reduce or eliminate the possibility of you transmitting the disease to others. However, at this time it remains unproven. There is the possibility that a vaccinated person could carry and transmit the virus. This would be akin to Typhoid Mary, who in the 19th century infected many people with typhus, despite never displaying symptoms herself.
The vaccine may be less effective against new variants of the virus.
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were tested prior to the outbreaks of the the British and South African variants of the virus. These mutations are faster spreading than the original virus. It is hoped, but not proven, that the vaccines will be as effective against them. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine was shown to be less effective than the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. It was tested later and included South Africa in its tests. It has been speculated (not shown) that part of the reason the J&J vaccine was shown to be less effective could be due to the South African strain.
New mutations of the virus may be resistant to the vaccine
Given the large size of the infected population and the time required to distribute the vaccine, new strains, resistant to vaccine are possible. The faster the pandemic can be brought under control the less chance of this happening.
The effectiveness of the vaccines over time is unproven.
It is not know how long the vaccine will be effective in your body. While some vaccines protect you for life, other require regular booster shots. Some people have gotten the virus twice. Others have been shown no longer carry the antibodies, even though the were confirmed as having had the virus. So there is at least a suggestion that the immunity may last a year or less.
The vaccines only reach full effectiveness several weeks after the second shot.
People may think that after the first shot or immediately after the second they are good to go. They're not.
Requiring mask wearing means that no one will lie about having gotten the vaccine.
If stores, restaurants, etc. that require mask wearing give an exemption to people that have had the vaccine, there are people who will lie about it so that they don't have to wear a mask. Requiring masks for everyone means that no one will slip through the cracks.
The bottom line
Vaccination alone will lower the transmission rate (the number of new infections resulting each infected person creates), but will not bring it to zero. Wearing masks and social distancing as well getting the vaccine will lower the transmission rate further. The lower the transmission rate, the faster the virus will decline and the sooner we can get back to normal and the fewer people will die.
Ken - Thanks for the time you took to post the above. However, I still don't agree with you. As we're going in circles, I will bow out of this discussion.
BTW, the Typhoid Mary example is a non=sequitur. Typhoid is transmitted via food. Typhoid and typhus sound similar, but are two different diseases. Typhus is transmitted by fleas.
Sorry about the mistake re: Typhoid and Typhus. The point was that it may be possible to be a vaccinated COVID spreader and not know it. From the article I linked to above:
My husband and I got our second vaccine on Monday. It felt like winning the lottery Today we cancelled our August river cruise and rebooked for May 2022. Our 39 year old nephew was going with us this year and we just didn’t feel good about his ability to be vaccinated in time. We are not holding on to much hope for our holiday cruise in Dec.
Cathy: I am so sorry for your situation. The entire distribution process in our country is abysmal. The same thing is happening in my small county in Western North Carolina. There is much inequality in the way the vaccines are distributed throughout the State. My county has about 39,000 residents and there are currently 3000 citizens over 65 on the waiting list. For 2 weeks, our small vaccine quota, along with other neighboring rural counties, was reallocated to Charlotte for their 2 Mega Vaccine Events that would vaccinate at each event about 15-20,000 people over 3 days. It was suggested that we could sign up for that clinic, however, many people over 65 don't have the means of driving 1 1/2 hours to Charlotte and back, not counting the time to wait in line with thousands of other people. In addition, anyone can sign up for the vaccine, you do not have to live in a specific county or state. In Charlotte, many people were driving over the border from South Carolina. My county finally received 300 doses this week and my boyfriend and I were able to get our first shot with a guaranteed appointment in 4 weeks for the second shot. It was such a feeling of relief. Our county will receive 300 doses each week for 2 more weeks , beyond that is unknown. At this rate, it will take 10 weeks to work thru the current waiting list of those 65 and above. I also heard the other day on our local news that there are still a number of Nursing Homes in our State where residents have not received their vaccine. Such a sorry state of affairs. I really don't feel that any travel outside of the US is possible this year. I , personally, have no intention of getting on an airplane. We have a trip planned for May to drive to Florida and stay in a rented condo on the ocean and social distance from there. It is my hope that circumstances will improve soon once the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is approved and distributed to pharmacies throughout the US.
This just gets more and more depressing. The earliest roll out for the J and J vaccine is about a month away. If it is approved.
I had to laugh this morning when I read about the complaints in Israel about the vaccines there and the lockdowns. They have already vaccinated over a third of the population and have now included the Palestinians
Worldwide Map on Vaccine Estimates.
AshvEd - Neat chart. Would be nice if it gets updated from time to time. I'm hoping that the US is closer to Mid 2021, than Late 2021.
This is where things stand in my state of New Jersey. My husband and I have both received our first dose and will be fully vaccinated in less than 4 weeks. Woohoo 😄
My friend in New Jersey just got his second shot. We have had our first and have an appointment for our second in less than two weeks. The pace here in California is also accelerating. The chart someone posted shows the U.S. and Europe on the same timeline, but we are doing much better than Europe except for the U.K. which started a number of weeks ahead of us. The main problem here may turn out to be the people who refuse to be vaccinated.
Colorado just opened up 65-69 and teachers today. One more category to go and it'll be my turn.
BKMD - What is that next category: con men, time share salesmen, yodelers, etc. 😀
Sam - You left out car salesmen or are they included under con men.
At least prisoners are no longer ahead of me, since they last modified the rollout list.