Here's a data point for you: I got Covid (for the first time) in January. Most likely caught it when I went in for lunch at the lodge while skiing. Started having a scratchy throat the day before the end of the trip, then coughing, then mild fever, and was all better in a week. Covid test remained positive for 9 days. When it was time to leave the mountain, I drove my daughter and her significant other to the airport. We were all in my car for about 90 minutes, all wearing (true) N95 masks. Lo and behold, the two of them never got Covid. How is that possible if masks don't work?
I wore a mask for one day/week for 30 years, when in the OR. Not a big deal to me.
Perhaps Sealord needs to get his money back for the degree he received from the Tucker Carlson School of Medicine.
I had a similar experience. We did Machu Picchu and the Gapalagos in September 2021 and everyone on the tour was very careful and masked. No one came down with COVID and we were tested pre-tour, prior to boarding the ship (mid tour) and at the end of the tour so that we could go back to the US.
In 2022 we did two cruises and masking was essentially eliminated (except for the crew). On both cruises there were quite a number of COVID cases. On the last cruise, there were people who were obviously sick, most likely with COVID, but they didn't report their sickness, probably because they didn't want to be quarantined and miss excursions in ports. I don't know if they masked on the buses.
I realize that anecdote is not evidence, and only offer my experience.
I do think this is a TRAVEL forum and do like to see us focused on TRAVEL over COVID - as we will never all agree on COVID precautions & masks - but it is hard to not bring up Covid since it has changed so much about travel. I am just so grateful Delta is gone and we now have the less lethal variants out there and we are all traveling again. We have 4 trips booked and I couldn't say that 18months ago.
I am a NURSE ANESTHETIST for 22 years and a NURSE for 32 years and I can tell you without a single doubt that masks DO prevent the spread of droplets, air-born pathogens, and bacterias/viruses. I try not to get caught up in these topics because unless you've taken microbiology and virology and understand the pathogen process, I don't expect you to understand how disease is spread and contained - but I can guarantee, when you come into our OR for brain surgery or even a Lap. Chole - you DO want all of us in a mask to protect you and your cut open body and immunosuppressed state due to Anesthesia. While masks are NOT airtight hence the fogging, etc and you can obviously smell thru them, so no, they won't totally prevent Covid, but they will certainly decrease the spread and transmission.
All that said, the last 2 times we went to Europe, we chose NOT to wear a mask - we came home with COVID the first time in Sept (as did most everyone on our Ultimate Alp & Dolomites Tour - thankfully we were asymptomatic) and we were most likely still protected the 2nd time in Dec - but that was our choice and we knew the risk of not wearing a mask. We did wear one on the trains in Germany as it was still a requirement.
I think the choice should be individual as this isn't going away, but I do KNOW that masks do help prevent the spread of Covid, Colds, Flu, and many other organisms.
I wear a mask for 8-12 hours in the OR everyday and choose NOT to wear one when we travel - but we do ramp up with Vit. C, Zinc, Quercetin. We are vaccinated and boostered only twice and we are done with vaccines unless a more lethal strain comes out because I am not liking some of the studies coming out about the vaccines/boosters at this time. But again, this is our choice. I just hate seeing people not believing in masks (and while I won't travel with one unless it's required, I do know they work - my whole career is based on protecting people and keeping them safe) -- and I did put a mask on towards the end of our trip in Sept knowing we were most likely positive since so many others on our tour were. Did I like wearing one? NO, but it's the right thing to do knowing you could be spreading it to immunosuppressed people. There was a lady on our tour with LIVER CANCER and she and her husband kept one on constantly and sat separate at most meals and sat in the back of the bus. They never told anyone she had LIVER CANCER - but her husband told me when he found out I was a nurse. We touched base with them once we got home and they were the ONLY 2 on our tour, except our TG and Bus Driver, who did NOT get covid and they masked at all times except meals. Our TG and Bus Driver had a mask on most of the time too. I am just grateful we were asymptomatic (I like to think that was due to Vit C, Zinc, Quercetin) - many others on our tour were very sick and only used the bus as transport thru our tour - they stayed in hotel and missed all activities. I did a post/review about this when we returned. Sorry to get off topic, but this is another point that masks protected that husband and wife. Our TG sent us all an email and we all corresponded when we got home. Only 2 people left the tour on day 3 - everyone else stayed on either aymptomatic or pretty sick missing all excursions. Tauck knew this and didn't enforce masks or ask very sick people to leave the tour - so I am NOT surprised with this new rule they are starting in 2024. Thankfully, Covid is less lethal, so I'm not surprised to see them drop this mandate. They don't require a FLU shot and more people die of the FLU than certain variants of COVID. Personally, I'd like to see the requirement continue, but I'm not surprised that they are dropping it.
terrilynn thank you for that information.
I would like to add that it is time not only Covid but Healthy Traveling in general be a part of the travel discussion. How should discussing HEALTH while traveling be less important than what to wear in Italy.
I'm sure no travel company wants to be in the health business. They prefer to stay in the vacation business. If you look on their Health page, they state they have our health in mind, but there is really no information.
It's time to address the elephant in the room.
OK. I will offer one last tidbit. On our last Tauck trip we were three couples. We ate together many times and traveled together. One couple wore masks all the time except when eating. Four of us never wore masks except on one tram where they were required. The mask wearing couple got covid, and the other four of us did not. Using BKMD logic, you would have to conclude that masks ‘cause’ covid. (;-)
I’m beyond getting into too much about Covid and masks anymore because it’s one of those things you can’t change peoples minds about. However, like Terrilyn I am also a trained nurse and she would agree one more thing with me and that is that many people who wear masks are not wearing them adequate or correctly. You have to pinch the metal nose bridge tightly over your nose and fit the mask tightly round you face and under your chin, that can make a huge difference. Otherwise you are just wearing what we call a token mask.
Next time you find yourself in surgery, you will, I hope, be so glad you have theater staff who are dedicated and protecting you from their germs and viruses while they plunge that endo-tracheal tube down your widely open mouth to keep you breathing whether they like you or not. Thank you Terrilyn for your information. I hate to say it but the Mark Twain comment made my day. Yes, I too have said many things people don’t like here, am I learning, maybe a little bit.
Thank goodness we can travel and Tauck, well for the remainder of the year anyway, states that if you want to wear a a mask, it is nobody else’s business. Every man for himself, thanks Charlie Darwin!
Surgical masks are notoriously leaky, even if you do pinch the nose. As a cataract surgeon, I operated through a microscope. I had to put a piece of tape on the upper edge of the mask and tape it to my nose and cheeks to prevent the oculars in the operating microscope from fogging up.
The masks are a lightening rod. You can only control what you do and the others will do what they will. I had dinner with a friend the other night. I chose not to wear my mask. She is a non mask, non vaccine believer although she did have one shot because she went to visit her sick mother in France and it was required. She went kicking and screaming all the way and she is still regretting getting the one shot (J&J).
She told me that a friend of hers died recently. She had 2 vaccines and 2 boosters as did this woman's husband and then she developed bone cancer and died within 6 months--all because of those darn vaccines. The husband now says he will never get another shot. I sat there speechless because you cannot argue with people who have those beliefs. Otherwise, she is a lovely intelligent woman who I've been friends with for 25 years.
In 3 hours, the car service will pick me up to go to the airport. I will wear my mask--though I'll probably take it off once I'm settled in my Qatar business class quad seat. Not a Tauck trip but one of the other competitors in that class. And there's another topic of no agreement. Some will never do anything but Tauck and eschew the others. I look at the itinerary and make my choice according to that.
A study is just that...a study. I have read that study in its entirety and in the Danish language. The authors made it very clear that their findings were inconclusive. Moreover, the participants only had to wear or not wear masks for at least three (3) hours outside daily. There were no controls or guidance for what they did the remaining twenty-one (21) hours each day although they supposedly were to remain inside. It's important to understand the parameters of studies before jumping to conclusions prematurely.
I am not here to push any political agenda, but I do recall how certain social media sites and other "news" outlets published redacted findings to suit their own agenda.
At this point and because of our ages, my husband and I will certainly wear masks when and where we deem it to be necessary to protect ourselves. It is our decision and one that should not be ridiculed.
Tauck is a for profit company. I am their customer. I spend a great deal of my money on their trips. Their product is definitely worth the cost. However, I am not concerned with being rude for mentioning another company. Their product stands on its own. If there is another company that offers something I want that they don’t, they are “big boys”. I’m sure they can deal with it without being insulted. If they can’t deal with it, so be it.
It is more about how I feel than how Tauck feels. I am loyal and ethical. I was taught you don't carry a jc penneys bag into a Macy's store. It is not a matter of right and wrong. It is a matter of principle.
I'm not much of a shopper, but if I buy something at one store in a mall, I carry that bag into the next store I go into. I've never once considered it disloyal or unethical.
[Added note: It would be very inconvenient to take the bag back to my car so I didn't show it in the next store.]
When I go shopping it is usually to one of the major malls in Tucson. If I buy something at one store I certainly don't go back to my car and will go into other stores carrying my bag or bags. I consider myself to be very ethical. It just doesn't make sense to me to go back and forth to my car. Also, I have now travelled with Tauck many times and I am about to begin one of my four trips with them this year but I also have three trips with Silversea booked for 2024. Why can't we discuss other companies on Tauck forum doesn't make any sense to me. Actually, I would love it if someone wanted to discuss other companies as it would be wonderful to hear their experiences.
Currently on a Tauck tour. The COVID statement we signed on our two 2022 Tauck tours is gone. The only mention of masks was due to smoke, not COVID. All are unmasked and all are fine. Very few people we’ve seen, except staff in some hotels, are wearing masks. Our COVID vaccination card has been required by both countries we’ve entered.
Just received an email from Tauck…probably sent to everyone for 2024 trips they are revising COVID rules, no more need for vaccine cards/ vaccinations.
Comments
Here's a data point for you: I got Covid (for the first time) in January. Most likely caught it when I went in for lunch at the lodge while skiing. Started having a scratchy throat the day before the end of the trip, then coughing, then mild fever, and was all better in a week. Covid test remained positive for 9 days. When it was time to leave the mountain, I drove my daughter and her significant other to the airport. We were all in my car for about 90 minutes, all wearing (true) N95 masks. Lo and behold, the two of them never got Covid. How is that possible if masks don't work?
I wore a mask for one day/week for 30 years, when in the OR. Not a big deal to me.
Perhaps Sealord needs to get his money back for the degree he received from the Tucker Carlson School of Medicine.
I had a similar experience. We did Machu Picchu and the Gapalagos in September 2021 and everyone on the tour was very careful and masked. No one came down with COVID and we were tested pre-tour, prior to boarding the ship (mid tour) and at the end of the tour so that we could go back to the US.
In 2022 we did two cruises and masking was essentially eliminated (except for the crew). On both cruises there were quite a number of COVID cases. On the last cruise, there were people who were obviously sick, most likely with COVID, but they didn't report their sickness, probably because they didn't want to be quarantined and miss excursions in ports. I don't know if they masked on the buses.
I realize that anecdote is not evidence, and only offer my experience.
I do think this is a TRAVEL forum and do like to see us focused on TRAVEL over COVID - as we will never all agree on COVID precautions & masks - but it is hard to not bring up Covid since it has changed so much about travel. I am just so grateful Delta is gone and we now have the less lethal variants out there and we are all traveling again. We have 4 trips booked and I couldn't say that 18months ago.
I am a NURSE ANESTHETIST for 22 years and a NURSE for 32 years and I can tell you without a single doubt that masks DO prevent the spread of droplets, air-born pathogens, and bacterias/viruses. I try not to get caught up in these topics because unless you've taken microbiology and virology and understand the pathogen process, I don't expect you to understand how disease is spread and contained - but I can guarantee, when you come into our OR for brain surgery or even a Lap. Chole - you DO want all of us in a mask to protect you and your cut open body and immunosuppressed state due to Anesthesia. While masks are NOT airtight hence the fogging, etc and you can obviously smell thru them, so no, they won't totally prevent Covid, but they will certainly decrease the spread and transmission.
All that said, the last 2 times we went to Europe, we chose NOT to wear a mask - we came home with COVID the first time in Sept (as did most everyone on our Ultimate Alp & Dolomites Tour - thankfully we were asymptomatic) and we were most likely still protected the 2nd time in Dec - but that was our choice and we knew the risk of not wearing a mask. We did wear one on the trains in Germany as it was still a requirement.
I think the choice should be individual as this isn't going away, but I do KNOW that masks do help prevent the spread of Covid, Colds, Flu, and many other organisms.
I wear a mask for 8-12 hours in the OR everyday and choose NOT to wear one when we travel - but we do ramp up with Vit. C, Zinc, Quercetin. We are vaccinated and boostered only twice and we are done with vaccines unless a more lethal strain comes out because I am not liking some of the studies coming out about the vaccines/boosters at this time. But again, this is our choice. I just hate seeing people not believing in masks (and while I won't travel with one unless it's required, I do know they work - my whole career is based on protecting people and keeping them safe) -- and I did put a mask on towards the end of our trip in Sept knowing we were most likely positive since so many others on our tour were. Did I like wearing one? NO, but it's the right thing to do knowing you could be spreading it to immunosuppressed people. There was a lady on our tour with LIVER CANCER and she and her husband kept one on constantly and sat separate at most meals and sat in the back of the bus. They never told anyone she had LIVER CANCER - but her husband told me when he found out I was a nurse. We touched base with them once we got home and they were the ONLY 2 on our tour, except our TG and Bus Driver, who did NOT get covid and they masked at all times except meals. Our TG and Bus Driver had a mask on most of the time too. I am just grateful we were asymptomatic (I like to think that was due to Vit C, Zinc, Quercetin) - many others on our tour were very sick and only used the bus as transport thru our tour - they stayed in hotel and missed all activities. I did a post/review about this when we returned. Sorry to get off topic, but this is another point that masks protected that husband and wife. Our TG sent us all an email and we all corresponded when we got home. Only 2 people left the tour on day 3 - everyone else stayed on either aymptomatic or pretty sick missing all excursions. Tauck knew this and didn't enforce masks or ask very sick people to leave the tour - so I am NOT surprised with this new rule they are starting in 2024. Thankfully, Covid is less lethal, so I'm not surprised to see them drop this mandate. They don't require a FLU shot and more people die of the FLU than certain variants of COVID. Personally, I'd like to see the requirement continue, but I'm not surprised that they are dropping it.
terrilynn thank you for that information.
I would like to add that it is time not only Covid but Healthy Traveling in general be a part of the travel discussion. How should discussing HEALTH while traveling be less important than what to wear in Italy.
I'm sure no travel company wants to be in the health business. They prefer to stay in the vacation business. If you look on their Health page, they state they have our health in mind, but there is really no information.
It's time to address the elephant in the room.
OK. I will offer one last tidbit. On our last Tauck trip we were three couples. We ate together many times and traveled together. One couple wore masks all the time except when eating. Four of us never wore masks except on one tram where they were required. The mask wearing couple got covid, and the other four of us did not. Using BKMD logic, you would have to conclude that masks ‘cause’ covid. (;-)
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain
I’m beyond getting into too much about Covid and masks anymore because it’s one of those things you can’t change peoples minds about. However, like Terrilyn I am also a trained nurse and she would agree one more thing with me and that is that many people who wear masks are not wearing them adequate or correctly. You have to pinch the metal nose bridge tightly over your nose and fit the mask tightly round you face and under your chin, that can make a huge difference. Otherwise you are just wearing what we call a token mask.
Next time you find yourself in surgery, you will, I hope, be so glad you have theater staff who are dedicated and protecting you from their germs and viruses while they plunge that endo-tracheal tube down your widely open mouth to keep you breathing whether they like you or not. Thank you Terrilyn for your information. I hate to say it but the Mark Twain comment made my day. Yes, I too have said many things people don’t like here, am I learning, maybe a little bit.
Thank goodness we can travel and Tauck, well for the remainder of the year anyway, states that if you want to wear a a mask, it is nobody else’s business. Every man for himself, thanks Charlie Darwin!
Surgical masks are notoriously leaky, even if you do pinch the nose. As a cataract surgeon, I operated through a microscope. I had to put a piece of tape on the upper edge of the mask and tape it to my nose and cheeks to prevent the oculars in the operating microscope from fogging up.
The masks are a lightening rod. You can only control what you do and the others will do what they will. I had dinner with a friend the other night. I chose not to wear my mask. She is a non mask, non vaccine believer although she did have one shot because she went to visit her sick mother in France and it was required. She went kicking and screaming all the way and she is still regretting getting the one shot (J&J).
She told me that a friend of hers died recently. She had 2 vaccines and 2 boosters as did this woman's husband and then she developed bone cancer and died within 6 months--all because of those darn vaccines. The husband now says he will never get another shot. I sat there speechless because you cannot argue with people who have those beliefs. Otherwise, she is a lovely intelligent woman who I've been friends with for 25 years.
In 3 hours, the car service will pick me up to go to the airport. I will wear my mask--though I'll probably take it off once I'm settled in my Qatar business class quad seat. Not a Tauck trip but one of the other competitors in that class. And there's another topic of no agreement. Some will never do anything but Tauck and eschew the others. I look at the itinerary and make my choice according to that.
Happy travels! 😀
A study is just that...a study. I have read that study in its entirety and in the Danish language. The authors made it very clear that their findings were inconclusive. Moreover, the participants only had to wear or not wear masks for at least three (3) hours outside daily. There were no controls or guidance for what they did the remaining twenty-one (21) hours each day although they supposedly were to remain inside. It's important to understand the parameters of studies before jumping to conclusions prematurely.
I am not here to push any political agenda, but I do recall how certain social media sites and other "news" outlets published redacted findings to suit their own agenda.
At this point and because of our ages, my husband and I will certainly wear masks when and where we deem it to be necessary to protect ourselves. It is our decision and one that should not be ridiculed.
Tauck is a for profit company. I am their customer. I spend a great deal of my money on their trips. Their product is definitely worth the cost. However, I am not concerned with being rude for mentioning another company. Their product stands on its own. If there is another company that offers something I want that they don’t, they are “big boys”. I’m sure they can deal with it without being insulted. If they can’t deal with it, so be it.
I'm not much of a shopper, but if I buy something at one store in a mall, I carry that bag into the next store I go into. I've never once considered it disloyal or unethical.
[Added note: It would be very inconvenient to take the bag back to my car so I didn't show it in the next store.]
When I go shopping it is usually to one of the major malls in Tucson. If I buy something at one store I certainly don't go back to my car and will go into other stores carrying my bag or bags. I consider myself to be very ethical. It just doesn't make sense to me to go back and forth to my car. Also, I have now travelled with Tauck many times and I am about to begin one of my four trips with them this year but I also have three trips with Silversea booked for 2024. Why can't we discuss other companies on Tauck forum doesn't make any sense to me. Actually, I would love it if someone wanted to discuss other companies as it would be wonderful to hear their experiences.
For those who don’t like going off topic, what has this got to do with Covid?
Ah, Cathy deleted her post. So these messages don’t make sense
Currently on a Tauck tour. The COVID statement we signed on our two 2022 Tauck tours is gone. The only mention of masks was due to smoke, not COVID. All are unmasked and all are fine. Very few people we’ve seen, except staff in some hotels, are wearing masks. Our COVID vaccination card has been required by both countries we’ve entered.
Just received an email from Tauck…probably sent to everyone for 2024 trips they are revising COVID rules, no more need for vaccine cards/ vaccinations.
Perhaps SAdivr and Maria526 have finished this discussion for us ….