Sealord - I had to check you statement. Here's the data I just captured. My numbers seem to refute your premise. The USA death rate / 1M population is almost twice that of Canada. Not fair to exclude NY City from the USA numbers.
I would disagree with excluding New York and that area. The New York City area death rate is ten times that of California. The statistics of course are always in question. I read of one case where three people killed by gunfire were listed as covid-19 deaths cuz they tested positive in the autopsy. Europe should not be blocking anyone from the U.S., they should be blocking anyone from a fifty mile radius of New York City.
Sealord, I was in NY on Feb 29th, would you ban me from Europe? And we were in China in the middle of November and my husband and others fell sick with Fever and he coughed for weeks afterwards. O My goodness did we bring it to the US?
unsolicited usually commercial messages (such as e-mails, text messages, or Internet postings) sent to a large number of recipients or posted in a large number of places
To who ever is the mysterious "flagger" please explain why my earlier post is spam?
@Sealord - This discussion is a great example of how one can use statistics rightly and wrongly. As for the NYC area, the lions share of those cases was earlier in the year, when there were different treatment protocols. The infection rate itself in NYC area is currently way down, and certainly, deaths are way down. Decisions about who should be allowed entry now should be based upon current conditions in an area or country of departure/origin, not what was. I live about 25 miles north of NYC, right on the border with CT. In my community, we have 4 active cases, out of a population of about 10K, and no deaths for quite some time. We do have a mask-wearing and social distancing culture here (those tactics are effective) and things are currently under control. Hospitals are not overrun, elective surgeries are taking place, etc... Our current experience is far better than the US at large. Based upon today, Europe should want to take NYers over the general population of the US, if a targeted entry were permitted.
I don’t necessarily disagree with sevenseas. In California we are testing roughly 120,000 people per day. Who is getting tested? Is it people who think they are sick, or people lined up in cars cuz they just want to know? The rules and the testing and the protocols are in many cases arbitrary and capricious. If 47 states are no more ‘hot spots’ than Canada, why should they not be allowed to travel to Europe? Most of our states are bigger than many countries in Europe. Should not each state be given individual consideration?
Sealord, there are more cases in the state of Florida with a population of 22 million than the entire EU. As such, can you blame the EU for denying entry to Americans? My son is an internist in Florida and cares for Covid 19 patients and describes the ICU in the two hospitals he serves as beyond the worst situation described in Medical School. Yet, the Governor of that state is in total denial. I'm afraid it will be a long time before normal travel comes back. I hope that Tauck survives this prolonged pandemic.
Well if we all could take a test, get immediate results then be teleported to our destination, Sealords argument might have some validity. Unfortunately, that isn't reality. My current flight plan for the trip in Sep that has been canceled included several hours in Atlanta. Georgia's not in any shape that I want to go near the place even if it isn't like FL, TX or AZ. The sad reality is that our country is basically considered a third world country that can't get it's act together. People here can argue politics and media bias all they want, the European Union doesn't care and our current WH occupant has done less than zero to build relationships with our allies there that might work to our advantage. Fully expect our flagger to go to work on this one. Be my guest.
It took me a while to understand why testing was important because once anyone was allowed to be tested, it is still basically random and not a controlled scientific trial. Then I realized the significance is the number of increased positives versus negatives that shows how much more the virus is spreading.
Other than that, for personal usefulness to find out whether you ‘have’ Covid 19 or not, especially if you are asymptotic, it is only good for the day you get the test. If it is negative, the very next day, you could become infected.
What my husband and I want to know is, have we already been infected and do we have antibodies, and if we do, do we have a good amount of antibodies and will they stop us being re-infected if we are exposed to the virus again.
As far as I know, you have to have a Dr’s script to get tested and it’s a blood test. In addition, I believe there are few accurate Antibody tests available, too many false positives or negatives. So we wait and wait and try to follow rules about social distancing and proper mask wearing. It doesn’t matter where you live in the US, we all move around too much for there to be anywhere that is truly safe to be.
Wear a mask and Save Our Country, Save yourself, save your friends and family.
SeaLord, I really would like to know what it’s like in Yosemite, is it it busy?
I’ve not been to Yosemite for about 25 years and had been planning to go back with Tauck some day. When we went all those years ago with our teenage children we still lived in England and our travel agent could only secure us a stay in a ramshackle motel with a smelly air conditioner.In that area on that vacation, we began in LA, travelled the Big Sur visiting places along the way to San Francisco, the Sequoia National Forest, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Vegas, forget where else And ending up in Phoenix/Scottsdale. It was all done on a budget, so next time we will do it the Tauck Way and not have to worry about driving.
Florida was not cautious about reopening, we went on phase 1 and a week later it was phase 2 and one more week and we were in phase 3, instead of giving at least 4 weeks for a phase to see the reaction. Now we are paying for it as cases increase each day both my son and grandson work at Orlando Health and all ICU beds are taken. The governor will not make masks mandatory in the State and many of the beaches are still open, he stopped bars from selling liquor but did not close them. I still don't think that the public is taking this seriously enough.
Gladys, I feel for you over your concern about your son and grandson. I'm worried to being sick about the virus spreading to my son and his family. When are people going to wake up about the seriousness of this virus?
When your antibodies decrease like Tom Hanks said it basically means he has fought the disease and the circulating antibodies have diminished, but it does not mean that the body has forgotten about how to fight the virus. With the flu, there are different strains, so it is harder to get the vaccine right each year. I think that is right. Our pharmacy called us last week and asked us if we wanted them to reserve this year’s flu vaccine
Back to the original question, just got the call from Tauck that our 4 Sep Switzerland tour is canceled. Options were: move money to another tour ( we already had a 2021 deposit for the same trip) and get $250 pp credit, move money into travel wallet with $250 pp credit, or refund all but the guest protection money. The later could be a voucher or applied to the 2021 trip. Going with the plan of keeping the money there and hoping for a much better 2021.
Tauck called us last Friday and cancelled our Classic Italy tour scheduled to start September 27. Told us that tours starting through September 30 were cancelled, but they hope to run some tours later in the fall.
Ok kfnknfzk, you can interpret this to be an attack but I'm just trying to set the record straight. No one was proposing to deliberately infect anyone. But if people aren't more careful they can get infected through their own carelessness. The virus doesn't care if you're stupid or brilliant. It will take any opening it gets. For the majority of us who take this seriously and are trying to do what we can to avoid getting it or giving it, it can be very frustrating to hear people whining about masks, about their liberty, about me me me. Wearing on us all. Tempers are getting frayed.
We all long for the forum to return to the usual talk about upcoming trips. Heck, I'd gladly answer "what to wear on a river cruise" for the umpteenth time if it meant we were back to traveling with this all behind us. Not a lot of those kind of questions so fewer people are participating even than normal - which isn't even the majority of Tauck travelers at the best of times.
There isn't a lot of travel to talk about. Even staying within ones country or state has issues. We're kind of left with how to handle cancellations, get refunds, maybe a little of what our plans are for next year. There have been efforts to find something positive to say like Alan's photo contest, discussions about Tauck web events/videos, travel related news, etc. Very hard not to mention the virus since it seems to "infect" every aspect of our lives.
I wish you and all our fellow Tauck travelers well.
I would be confident ot travel if I could have some kind of guarantee that everyone would be thoughtful enough to wear a mask properly which is the law in the state I live in. All I go out for is to mainly food shop. Two weeks ago in Costco, most of the checkout people wore masks under their noses, it really upset me, so I spoke to the young manager and asked why she was allowing it, she said she could do nothing if they had an underlying medical condition. I just said rubbish! These people do not seem to have COPD and they are not unconscious, those are the reason not to wear masks. Now they all wear masks because Costco got so many complaints. Unfortunate their are still customers walking around with masks under their noses who are just totally uncaring about if they might infect anyone because they don’t like wearing a mask. No one likes wearing a mask but we do it because we care about others.,
I like Claudia’s thread about unexpected delights and disappointments.
Kfn....few people have ever even heard about the forum or are interested in it. There were always only a few participants, even before I joined, I would read the forum and that is how it has been historically and I think why Tauck took so long to improve it to just this level
Saw a news piece last week that covering the nose is especially important as an infected person has way more virus in their nose than lungs so if they are exhaling thru it uncovered more virus is getting out for some other soul to breath in.
Suppose you go rafting and as you start sinking, you notice some small holes in the raft. You quickly get out your patch kit and patch all but 2 holes (nostrils analogy). How well, would that work?.
Some people only have their interests at heart and no one else's. It infuriates me to see people without masks when it is a requirement in the county I live in. They think that wearing a mask is giving up their freedom, guess they have no idea what the Holocaust or slavery was.
SeaLord, I really would like to know what it’s like in Yosemite, is it it busy?
I’ve not been to Yosemite for about 25 years and had been planning to go back with Tauck some day. When we went all those years ago with our teenage children we still lived in England and our travel agent could only secure us a stay in a ramshackle motel with a smelly air conditioner.In that area on that vacation, we began in LA, travelled the Big Sur visiting places along the way to San Francisco, the Sequoia National Forest, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Vegas, forget where else And ending up in Phoenix/Scottsdale. It was all done on a budget, so next time we will do it the Tauck Way and not have to worry about driving.
Yosemite was great. They have cut down the number of visitors to about 50% of normal. The Ahwahnee Hotel is where Tauck stays. We had drinks there, but it is not set up for outdoor dining. We stayed at the Evergreen Lodge which is very close to the North entrance, and between Yosemite and Hetch Hetchy. It is remote, and ‘woodsy’ and we love it. We stay there a couple times per year, normally in the winter months. This was our first summer visit. Tauck does Yosemite as part of a larger West Coast tour.
Received our call today for our Elegant Adventure departure in late Sept. we had booked our air on Delta thru Tauck. All monies are refunded. No issues. Sounds like they are trying to do some trips later in the fall.
Comments
Sealord - I had to check you statement. Here's the data I just captured. My numbers seem to refute your premise. The USA death rate / 1M population is almost twice that of Canada. Not fair to exclude NY City from the USA numbers.
I would disagree with excluding New York and that area. The New York City area death rate is ten times that of California. The statistics of course are always in question. I read of one case where three people killed by gunfire were listed as covid-19 deaths cuz they tested positive in the autopsy. Europe should not be blocking anyone from the U.S., they should be blocking anyone from a fifty mile radius of New York City.
Sealord, I was in NY on Feb 29th, would you ban me from Europe? And we were in China in the middle of November and my husband and others fell sick with Fever and he coughed for weeks afterwards. O My goodness did we bring it to the US?
To who ever is the mysterious "flagger" please explain why my earlier post is spam?
It looks someone has flagged almost every post in this thread. Including this post.
@Sealord - This discussion is a great example of how one can use statistics rightly and wrongly. As for the NYC area, the lions share of those cases was earlier in the year, when there were different treatment protocols. The infection rate itself in NYC area is currently way down, and certainly, deaths are way down. Decisions about who should be allowed entry now should be based upon current conditions in an area or country of departure/origin, not what was. I live about 25 miles north of NYC, right on the border with CT. In my community, we have 4 active cases, out of a population of about 10K, and no deaths for quite some time. We do have a mask-wearing and social distancing culture here (those tactics are effective) and things are currently under control. Hospitals are not overrun, elective surgeries are taking place, etc... Our current experience is far better than the US at large. Based upon today, Europe should want to take NYers over the general population of the US, if a targeted entry were permitted.
I don’t necessarily disagree with sevenseas. In California we are testing roughly 120,000 people per day. Who is getting tested? Is it people who think they are sick, or people lined up in cars cuz they just want to know? The rules and the testing and the protocols are in many cases arbitrary and capricious. If 47 states are no more ‘hot spots’ than Canada, why should they not be allowed to travel to Europe? Most of our states are bigger than many countries in Europe. Should not each state be given individual consideration?
Sealord, there are more cases in the state of Florida with a population of 22 million than the entire EU. As such, can you blame the EU for denying entry to Americans? My son is an internist in Florida and cares for Covid 19 patients and describes the ICU in the two hospitals he serves as beyond the worst situation described in Medical School. Yet, the Governor of that state is in total denial. I'm afraid it will be a long time before normal travel comes back. I hope that Tauck survives this prolonged pandemic.
Well if we all could take a test, get immediate results then be teleported to our destination, Sealords argument might have some validity. Unfortunately, that isn't reality. My current flight plan for the trip in Sep that has been canceled included several hours in Atlanta. Georgia's not in any shape that I want to go near the place even if it isn't like FL, TX or AZ. The sad reality is that our country is basically considered a third world country that can't get it's act together. People here can argue politics and media bias all they want, the European Union doesn't care and our current WH occupant has done less than zero to build relationships with our allies there that might work to our advantage. Fully expect our flagger to go to work on this one. Be my guest.
It took me a while to understand why testing was important because once anyone was allowed to be tested, it is still basically random and not a controlled scientific trial. Then I realized the significance is the number of increased positives versus negatives that shows how much more the virus is spreading.
Other than that, for personal usefulness to find out whether you ‘have’ Covid 19 or not, especially if you are asymptotic, it is only good for the day you get the test. If it is negative, the very next day, you could become infected.
What my husband and I want to know is, have we already been infected and do we have antibodies, and if we do, do we have a good amount of antibodies and will they stop us being re-infected if we are exposed to the virus again.
As far as I know, you have to have a Dr’s script to get tested and it’s a blood test. In addition, I believe there are few accurate Antibody tests available, too many false positives or negatives. So we wait and wait and try to follow rules about social distancing and proper mask wearing. It doesn’t matter where you live in the US, we all move around too much for there to be anywhere that is truly safe to be.
Wear a mask and Save Our Country, Save yourself, save your friends and family.
SeaLord, I really would like to know what it’s like in Yosemite, is it it busy?
I’ve not been to Yosemite for about 25 years and had been planning to go back with Tauck some day. When we went all those years ago with our teenage children we still lived in England and our travel agent could only secure us a stay in a ramshackle motel with a smelly air conditioner.In that area on that vacation, we began in LA, travelled the Big Sur visiting places along the way to San Francisco, the Sequoia National Forest, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Vegas, forget where else And ending up in Phoenix/Scottsdale. It was all done on a budget, so next time we will do it the Tauck Way and not have to worry about driving.
Florida was not cautious about reopening, we went on phase 1 and a week later it was phase 2 and one more week and we were in phase 3, instead of giving at least 4 weeks for a phase to see the reaction. Now we are paying for it as cases increase each day both my son and grandson work at Orlando Health and all ICU beds are taken. The governor will not make masks mandatory in the State and many of the beaches are still open, he stopped bars from selling liquor but did not close them. I still don't think that the public is taking this seriously enough.
Gladys, I feel for you over your concern about your son and grandson. I'm worried to being sick about the virus spreading to my son and his family. When are people going to wake up about the seriousness of this virus?
When your antibodies decrease like Tom Hanks said it basically means he has fought the disease and the circulating antibodies have diminished, but it does not mean that the body has forgotten about how to fight the virus. With the flu, there are different strains, so it is harder to get the vaccine right each year. I think that is right. Our pharmacy called us last week and asked us if we wanted them to reserve this year’s flu vaccine
Back to the original question, just got the call from Tauck that our 4 Sep Switzerland tour is canceled. Options were: move money to another tour ( we already had a 2021 deposit for the same trip) and get $250 pp credit, move money into travel wallet with $250 pp credit, or refund all but the guest protection money. The later could be a voucher or applied to the 2021 trip. Going with the plan of keeping the money there and hoping for a much better 2021.
You can't fix stupid. But you can infect them.
Claudia, glad you finally got the call, terribly disappointing but it makes planning and everything else easier. The waiting is definitely the worst.
We are still waiting to hear about our Sept SA Elegant Ad. on Sept 25. Has anyone had their departures cancelled yet
Tauck called us last Friday and cancelled our Classic Italy tour scheduled to start September 27. Told us that tours starting through September 30 were cancelled, but they hope to run some tours later in the fall.
Ok kfnknfzk, you can interpret this to be an attack but I'm just trying to set the record straight. No one was proposing to deliberately infect anyone. But if people aren't more careful they can get infected through their own carelessness. The virus doesn't care if you're stupid or brilliant. It will take any opening it gets. For the majority of us who take this seriously and are trying to do what we can to avoid getting it or giving it, it can be very frustrating to hear people whining about masks, about their liberty, about me me me. Wearing on us all. Tempers are getting frayed.
We all long for the forum to return to the usual talk about upcoming trips. Heck, I'd gladly answer "what to wear on a river cruise" for the umpteenth time if it meant we were back to traveling with this all behind us. Not a lot of those kind of questions so fewer people are participating even than normal - which isn't even the majority of Tauck travelers at the best of times.
There isn't a lot of travel to talk about. Even staying within ones country or state has issues. We're kind of left with how to handle cancellations, get refunds, maybe a little of what our plans are for next year. There have been efforts to find something positive to say like Alan's photo contest, discussions about Tauck web events/videos, travel related news, etc. Very hard not to mention the virus since it seems to "infect" every aspect of our lives.
I wish you and all our fellow Tauck travelers well.
Thank you Jersey Girl and Guy. Hopefully we will hear this week.
I would be confident ot travel if I could have some kind of guarantee that everyone would be thoughtful enough to wear a mask properly which is the law in the state I live in. All I go out for is to mainly food shop. Two weeks ago in Costco, most of the checkout people wore masks under their noses, it really upset me, so I spoke to the young manager and asked why she was allowing it, she said she could do nothing if they had an underlying medical condition. I just said rubbish! These people do not seem to have COPD and they are not unconscious, those are the reason not to wear masks. Now they all wear masks because Costco got so many complaints. Unfortunate their are still customers walking around with masks under their noses who are just totally uncaring about if they might infect anyone because they don’t like wearing a mask. No one likes wearing a mask but we do it because we care about others.,
I like Claudia’s thread about unexpected delights and disappointments.
Kfn....few people have ever even heard about the forum or are interested in it. There were always only a few participants, even before I joined, I would read the forum and that is how it has been historically and I think why Tauck took so long to improve it to just this level
Saw a news piece last week that covering the nose is especially important as an infected person has way more virus in their nose than lungs so if they are exhaling thru it uncovered more virus is getting out for some other soul to breath in.
Suppose you go rafting and as you start sinking, you notice some small holes in the raft. You quickly get out your patch kit and patch all but 2 holes (nostrils analogy). How well, would that work?.
Some people only have their interests at heart and no one else's. It infuriates me to see people without masks when it is a requirement in the county I live in. They think that wearing a mask is giving up their freedom, guess they have no idea what the Holocaust or slavery was.
SeaLord, I really would like to know what it’s like in Yosemite, is it it busy?
I’ve not been to Yosemite for about 25 years and had been planning to go back with Tauck some day. When we went all those years ago with our teenage children we still lived in England and our travel agent could only secure us a stay in a ramshackle motel with a smelly air conditioner.In that area on that vacation, we began in LA, travelled the Big Sur visiting places along the way to San Francisco, the Sequoia National Forest, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Vegas, forget where else And ending up in Phoenix/Scottsdale. It was all done on a budget, so next time we will do it the Tauck Way and not have to worry about driving.
Yosemite was great. They have cut down the number of visitors to about 50% of normal. The Ahwahnee Hotel is where Tauck stays. We had drinks there, but it is not set up for outdoor dining. We stayed at the Evergreen Lodge which is very close to the North entrance, and between Yosemite and Hetch Hetchy. It is remote, and ‘woodsy’ and we love it. We stay there a couple times per year, normally in the winter months. This was our first summer visit. Tauck does Yosemite as part of a larger West Coast tour.
It looks charming Sealord. I love swimming pools!
British. This is the winter at Evergreen. The pool and hot tub are open in winter.
Lovely, winter there not on my agenda though!
Received our call today for our Elegant Adventure departure in late Sept. we had booked our air on Delta thru Tauck. All monies are refunded. No issues. Sounds like they are trying to do some trips later in the fall.
Lovely pictures Sealord but too cold for me.